7 ms·

Mozilla wants you to love Firefox again

51 points by technojunkie 2y ago

technojunkie 2y ago
Regarding the Ad Tech section, I found value in the August 6th episode of Security Now titled "How Revoking!" where he's talking about 3rd-party cookies handling in Firefox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZx-W5qC_dc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZx-W5qC_dc Generally speaking, I'm sure it's difficult to find a general balance between privacy and usability, and I tend to want a purist viewpoint on blocking all 3rd-party cookies if I set Enhanced Tracking Protection to Strict. The above episodes explains why it's not 100% doing what we expect, which was troubling to hear!
gotoeleven 2y ago
Is there something fundamental to the design of firefox that makes it use tons of memory and be prone to letting web pages peg a core at 100%? Every time I try to use firefox I have to quit because sometimes it runs like a 90s java applet.
- pelagicAustral 2y ago
  I could exchange Firefox for Javascript and land on the same result... but people are going to be equally mad about it... the problem is not the browser.
- hedora 2y ago
  It’s always been a GPU driver issue when I’ve seen a meaningful difference in performance between Chrome, Safari or Firefox. (I’ve seen such issues on everything from 128 thread xeons to one core atoms, and also on Arm). One of them ends up falling back on some legacy thing when the other two don’t. Once, I encountered two identical machines with the same version of debian. Chrome was unusably slow on one, and Firefox was unusably slow on the other. The other browser ran great. Browsers and modern hardware are complicated. shrug
- xarope 2y ago
  it's frustrating to watch this, especially since Rust started off within Mozilla.
- supertrope 2y ago
  Usually it's an ad laden local news website. I usually decide the solution is to stop visiting that website.
  - create-account 2y ago
    Oh no. Just block every connection through uBlock Origin so you get a mostly JavaScript-less website. There are so many benefits to browsing without JS
    - tmtvl 2y ago
      There's 3 extensions which I consider must-haves: - Noscript Security Suite which has made it very obvious how absolutely fucked today's web is (there's sites which can't display static text without js, as though HTML and CSS are insufficient to display styled text with some markup). - uBlock Origin because obviously. - Multi-account Containers, which aren't quite as good as profiles, but get like 70% of the way there.
      - fragmede 2y ago
        > there's sites which can't display static text without js as developers, we understand how stupid that is and the utter insanity of javascriptium that got us there, but how is that a selling point? If I install that extension, I get a degraded experience and I get to be judgey because the framework the developer(s) they hired used some bit javascriptium that doesn't degrade nicely. am I supposed to feel smug that I've figured that out? why would I want to make things worse for myself? just for some small sense of feeling better than other people?
        create-account 2y ago
        JavaScript makes the surf experience a PITA with constant pop ups with consent, subscription. “Cookies or coins”, etc.
      - create-account 2y ago
Afforess 2y ago
I don’t know if Firefox can be saved. I say that using Firefox for iOS right now. I use Firefox because it’s not chrome, not because it’s good. Mozilla’s reputation is trash, Firefox is riddled with ancient bugs, and the bleeding hasn’t stopped. I’d like to be wrong but I don’t see how.
- sevg 2y ago
  Worth noting that Firefox for iOS isn't actually truly Firefox. Due to platform rules, browsers on iOS are all required to use the webkit engine so they all are basically just reskins of Safari.
thomassmith65 2y ago
When a CEO diagnoses a public screw-up as a failure to educate the customer, the CEO is usually a loser, in both senses of the word.
oliverkwebb 2y ago
Is there any chance this relates to the recent anti-trust case against google? I.e. making a attempt to appeal to user wants more since the majority of the money they make is at risk
devwastaken 2y ago
Dump gecko and spider monkey and build a UI over webkit. A "firefox safari" that properly integrates system password management/account management and is convenient to use. Firefox tech is dead and not modular. It has no use to anyone else and is a major waste of resources.
- supertrope 2y ago
  You will be assimilated into Chromium. Resistance is futile.
dtx1 2y ago
[flagged]
- PenguinCoder 2y ago
  > we lost Firefox I agree, and am looking for other alternatives, that aren't chromium based; but not finding any modern browsers that fit that bill. So I still use Firefox. Any recommendations?
  - dtx1 2y ago
    There's nothing left. That Ladybird Browser[0] is the biggest name in the game outside of Firefox and Chromium but it's pre-alpha and if they don't switch to a memory safe language there's no point to it. That leaves you with Firefox and chromium derivatives, either LibreWolf if you want something Firefox based or Brave if you chose to get assimilated. Both have their issues: LibreWolf, like Firefox, lacks about a decade in security enhancements chromium implemented and Brave with their cryptoshit and questionable calling home behaviour hasn't been particularly trustworthy. Welcome to the brave new world. [0] https://ladybird.org/ https://ladybird.org/
    - _jackdk_ 2y ago
      From the FAQ at the bottom of https://ladybird.org/ https://ladybird.org/ : > Why build a new browser in C++ when safer and more modern languages are available? > Ladybird started as a component of the SerenityOS hobby project, which only allows C++. The choice of language was not so much a technical decision, but more one of personal convenience. Andreas was most comfortable with C++ when creating SerenityOS, and now we have almost half a million lines of modern C++ to maintain. > However, now that Ladybird has forked and become its own independent project, all constraints previously imposed by SerenityOS are no longer in effect. We are actively evaluating a number of alternatives and will be adding a mature successor language to the project in the near future. This process is already quite far along, and prototypes exist in multiple languages.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
danpalmer 2y ago
I used to be a die-hard Firefox user, but over the last 15 years software quality has improved, expectations have been raised, and I haven't felt that Firefox has kept up. It still feels like it's a re-skinned 2005 era piece of software. Placing it next to Safari, Chrome, or more recent competitors like Arc, it feels dated. There are technical reasons for this, there are process/political/human reasons why it has stayed this way, and for many people it's not a big enough issue to switch, or other things take priority, but for me it just comes down to jankiness. Alternative browsers all have their own issues, none are perfect, but most feel less janky at their core.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
  Agree. I switched two days ago because the whole manifest v3. Unfortunately there is only Brave claiming to keep supporting manifest v3 and I'm not really believing that, once the code starts to diverge. I will say that installing Firefox extensions makes me deeply uncomfortable. Everything requires access to everything. My hope is an uodate to manifedt v3 that improves things so we can go back to chromium based browsers (not necessary chrome)
- pennybanks 2y ago
  theres no point in having sentimental attachment to a browser. back then it was just dominated by a few, its the only reason you used it. you couldnt care less to switch cause were lazy. very funny thing computer people do is have such brand loyalty over a browser. and we turn around and laugh at coke people, ford people, xbox, how silly is it when you hear people arguing about xbox or ps. this is no doubt even sillier and as a bonus the only reason we say oh firefox has gone downhill but lol ill never use chrome and let them take my freedom and joy never ever... this is again just brand loyalty lol.... if you dont like firefox just switch, if you dont like that switch, if you dont like any browers... well you just have to choose and live with one then dont you. trust me google has all your info so does apple depending on your phone. and trust that your phone will be your id, wallet, everything very soon. ask asia, we are always lagging in tech, it will happen (ofc this isnt directed at you. im just talking sht outloud)
- hintymad 2y ago
sltkr 2y ago
Mozilla wastes all its money on its CEO and bullshit DEI programs, while neglecting to develop Firefox, their flagship product. When they spend some money on the browser, they use it to implement user-hostile garbage like Facebook's client-side tracking bullshit. Here's a cute graph of CEO pay vs Firefox market share: https://calpaterson.com/assets/mozilla-boss-pay.svg https://calpaterson.com/assets/mozilla-boss-pay.svg Mozilla is completely fucked. I just hope the company goes bankrupt so its niche of an open source browser can be filled by an organisation that actually cares about its product, and is not just a sham for execs to get millions of dollars from Google for being faux-competition, while fucking over their users.
- dtx1 2y ago
  [flagged]
alberth 2y ago
Dumb question: who’s Firefox target user? Chrome is able to capture the mass consumer market, due to Google’s dark pattern to nag you to install Chrome anytime you’re on a Google property. Edge target enterprise Fortune 500 user, who is required to use Microsoft/Office 365 at work (and its deep security permission ties to SharePoint). Safari has Mac/iOS audience via being the default on those platform. Brave (based on Chromium), and LibreWolf (based on Firefox) has even carved out those user who value privacy. What’s Firefox target user? Long ago, Firefox was the better IE, and it had great plugins for web developers. But that was before Chrome existed and Google capturing the mass market. And the developers needed to follow its users. So what target user is left for a Firefox? Note: not trolling. I loved Firefox. I just don’t genuine understand who it’s for anymore.
- sdf4j 2y ago
  I value my privacy and use Firefox. Honestly, I have trust issues with volatile “security focused” forks. I feel the risk of them been tampered are greater than the marginal gains.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    Firefox like Chrome still allows long-lived i.e. 400 days first party cookies. This is being abused by advertisers to track you across the web. If they do care about privacy it would be good for them to copy Safari and make this 7 days.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
      > If they do care about privacy it would be good for them to copy Safari and make this 7 days. If I get logged out of every website on a weekly basis I'm going to be annoyed. > This is being abused by advertisers to track you across the web. How do they use first party cookies to track you?
      - davidfischer 2y ago
        There's a few ways first party cookies can track you. Probably the biggest single way is Google Analytics which by default uses only first party cookies. Even without cookies at all, GA could track you across the web although first party cookies do make this a little easier and "better". However, first party cookies can help trackers in other ways like for CNAME cloaking[1] which basically makes a first-party cookie function similarly to a third-party one. Disclosure: I work for a small privacy focused ad company. [1] https://webkit.org/blog/11338/cname-cloaking-and-bounce-tracking-defense/ https://webkit.org/blog/11338/cname-cloaking-and-bounce-trac...
rasz 2y ago
I already love Firefox. Its Mozilla what I dont like. Fire the board and especially CEO, transfer assets to Firefox, dissolve foundation and never come back to software sector.
- _jackdk_ 2y ago
  Or at the very least, let me fund the browser directly!
bitwize 2y ago
I liked Firefox a whole lot better back before Mozilla effectively became a UN NGO with a few developers working on a web browser in a God-forsaken basement somewhere, Milton Waddams style. If they want me to love Firefox, they need to love Firefox. And show that love in the form of vision, resources, and better open-source, open-internet style governance. No execs saying "deplatforming is nice and all, but we really need to go even further beyond". As soon as a browser company makes it a mission to decide what people see online, they cease to be trustworthy as a browser company. So I may as well just use chromium (or ungoogled-chromium).
- create-account 2y ago
  Goggle still has special privileges to your computer through Ungoogled chromium. I’ve uninstalled them and will only use them on a VM
transfire 2y ago
I already do. Use it everywhere.
SXX 2y ago
I use Firefox on both Mac and Android and it works well. I'd just wish it was proper open source project with BDFL and public team of developers and not some corporate failure.
- create-account 2y ago
  I’m looking forward for Ladybird browser to be released to the General Public. On the meantime, I’m using LibreWolf instead. I’ve uninstalled Firefox after noticing the surreptitious advertising check
  - kentrado 2y ago
    Here's what I have found regarding this: "Thanks F3nd0! There are currently no plans to switch to a less permissive license. And we're perfectly happy using proprietary services like GitHub and Discord as long as they make our work easier and more enjoyable. We recently evaluated a number of alternatives, and found that they all introduced more friction than we were comfortable with. Although the task of building a browser is itself challenging, we're a pragmatic project :)"
pipeline_peak 2y ago
The Meta data collection is no surprise. Mozilla had been pimping out Firefox to Google for quite some time. Given their strong FOSS, they wouldn’t be doing shady deals like this if their future looked vital.
ssss11 2y ago
But they keep going back and forth on this..
tmaly 2y ago
I still love the Firefox focus app on iOS. I use it as my primary browser for privacy.
incomingpain 2y ago
Back in the day, I was one of those who installed firefox on every computer. I used to love firefox. But then they took up california politics and activism. This decision has survived multiple ceos. Mozilla has done it to themselves. New interim ceo wont be different. I can't fathom mozilla has any chance of selecting someone who could dig them out of their activist hole.
M95D 2y ago
> "We’re finding that our messages are particularly sticking with younger generations" Sure. Those are the people who don't know what a decent browser is. They never saw a browser with customizable UI, never saw Opera 12's notepad, never saw IE 5 Web Accessories (Links list, Image list), etc. etc.
err4nt 2y ago
"Deep in the browser’s privacy settings, Firefox introduced an experimental “privacy-preserving ad measurement” toggle, enabling it by default without explanation or disclosure." This isn't even the first time Firefox has collaborated with an ad or marketing company, rolled out a feature behind a checkbox that users didn't know about, turned it on by default. See the case of the 'Alternate Reality Game' ad campaign for Mr Robot a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15940144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15940144 I stopped hearing when Mozilla talks about privacy or caring about users. Most companies that treat their users like Mozilla just do it, but it actually adds insult to injury that Mozilla tells you they care, tells you you're important while they do the same things. It's gaslighting or manipulation or lying or something but I'm not going to listen to them any more.

51 points by technojunkie 2y ago

Regarding the Ad Tech section, I found value in the August 6th episode of Security Now titled "How Revoking!" where he's talking about 3rd-party cookies handling in Firefox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZx-W5qC_dc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZx-W5qC_dc Generally speaking, I'm sure it's difficult to find a general balance between privacy and usability, and I tend to want a purist viewpoint on blocking all 3rd-party cookies if I set Enhanced Tracking Protection to Strict. The above episodes explains why it's not 100% doing what we expect, which was troubling to hear!

gotoeleven 2y ago

Is there something fundamental to the design of firefox that makes it use tons of memory and be prone to letting web pages peg a core at 100%? Every time I try to use firefox I have to quit because sometimes it runs like a 90s java applet.

pelagicAustral 2y ago
I could exchange Firefox for Javascript and land on the same result... but people are going to be equally mad about it... the problem is not the browser.
hedora 2y ago
It’s always been a GPU driver issue when I’ve seen a meaningful difference in performance between Chrome, Safari or Firefox. (I’ve seen such issues on everything from 128 thread xeons to one core atoms, and also on Arm). One of them ends up falling back on some legacy thing when the other two don’t. Once, I encountered two identical machines with the same version of debian. Chrome was unusably slow on one, and Firefox was unusably slow on the other. The other browser ran great. Browsers and modern hardware are complicated. shrug
xarope 2y ago
it's frustrating to watch this, especially since Rust started off within Mozilla.
supertrope 2y ago
Usually it's an ad laden local news website. I usually decide the solution is to stop visiting that website.
- create-account 2y ago
  Oh no. Just block every connection through uBlock Origin so you get a mostly JavaScript-less website. There are so many benefits to browsing without JS
  - tmtvl 2y ago
    There's 3 extensions which I consider must-haves: - Noscript Security Suite which has made it very obvious how absolutely fucked today's web is (there's sites which can't display static text without js, as though HTML and CSS are insufficient to display styled text with some markup). - uBlock Origin because obviously. - Multi-account Containers, which aren't quite as good as profiles, but get like 70% of the way there.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      > there's sites which can't display static text without js as developers, we understand how stupid that is and the utter insanity of javascriptium that got us there, but how is that a selling point? If I install that extension, I get a degraded experience and I get to be judgey because the framework the developer(s) they hired used some bit javascriptium that doesn't degrade nicely. am I supposed to feel smug that I've figured that out? why would I want to make things worse for myself? just for some small sense of feeling better than other people?
      - create-account 2y ago
        JavaScript makes the surf experience a PITA with constant pop ups with consent, subscription. “Cookies or coins”, etc.
    - create-account 2y ago

Afforess 2y ago

I don’t know if Firefox can be saved. I say that using Firefox for iOS right now. I use Firefox because it’s not chrome, not because it’s good. Mozilla’s reputation is trash, Firefox is riddled with ancient bugs, and the bleeding hasn’t stopped. I’d like to be wrong but I don’t see how.

sevg 2y ago
Worth noting that Firefox for iOS isn't actually truly Firefox. Due to platform rules, browsers on iOS are all required to use the webkit engine so they all are basically just reskins of Safari.

thomassmith65 2y ago

When a CEO diagnoses a public screw-up as a failure to educate the customer, the CEO is usually a loser, in both senses of the word.

oliverkwebb 2y ago

Is there any chance this relates to the recent anti-trust case against google? I.e. making a attempt to appeal to user wants more since the majority of the money they make is at risk

devwastaken 2y ago

Dump gecko and spider monkey and build a UI over webkit. A "firefox safari" that properly integrates system password management/account management and is convenient to use. Firefox tech is dead and not modular. It has no use to anyone else and is a major waste of resources.

supertrope 2y ago
You will be assimilated into Chromium. Resistance is futile.

dtx1 2y ago

[flagged]

PenguinCoder 2y ago
> we lost Firefox I agree, and am looking for other alternatives, that aren't chromium based; but not finding any modern browsers that fit that bill. So I still use Firefox. Any recommendations?
- dtx1 2y ago
  There's nothing left. That Ladybird Browser[0] is the biggest name in the game outside of Firefox and Chromium but it's pre-alpha and if they don't switch to a memory safe language there's no point to it. That leaves you with Firefox and chromium derivatives, either LibreWolf if you want something Firefox based or Brave if you chose to get assimilated. Both have their issues: LibreWolf, like Firefox, lacks about a decade in security enhancements chromium implemented and Brave with their cryptoshit and questionable calling home behaviour hasn't been particularly trustworthy. Welcome to the brave new world. [0] https://ladybird.org/ https://ladybird.org/
  - _jackdk_ 2y ago
    From the FAQ at the bottom of https://ladybird.org/ https://ladybird.org/ : > Why build a new browser in C++ when safer and more modern languages are available? > Ladybird started as a component of the SerenityOS hobby project, which only allows C++. The choice of language was not so much a technical decision, but more one of personal convenience. Andreas was most comfortable with C++ when creating SerenityOS, and now we have almost half a million lines of modern C++ to maintain. > However, now that Ladybird has forked and become its own independent project, all constraints previously imposed by SerenityOS are no longer in effect. We are actively evaluating a number of alternatives and will be adding a mature successor language to the project in the near future. This process is already quite far along, and prototypes exist in multiple languages.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago

danpalmer 2y ago

I used to be a die-hard Firefox user, but over the last 15 years software quality has improved, expectations have been raised, and I haven't felt that Firefox has kept up. It still feels like it's a re-skinned 2005 era piece of software. Placing it next to Safari, Chrome, or more recent competitors like Arc, it feels dated. There are technical reasons for this, there are process/political/human reasons why it has stayed this way, and for many people it's not a big enough issue to switch, or other things take priority, but for me it just comes down to jankiness. Alternative browsers all have their own issues, none are perfect, but most feel less janky at their core.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
Agree. I switched two days ago because the whole manifest v3. Unfortunately there is only Brave claiming to keep supporting manifest v3 and I'm not really believing that, once the code starts to diverge. I will say that installing Firefox extensions makes me deeply uncomfortable. Everything requires access to everything. My hope is an uodate to manifedt v3 that improves things so we can go back to chromium based browsers (not necessary chrome)
pennybanks 2y ago
theres no point in having sentimental attachment to a browser. back then it was just dominated by a few, its the only reason you used it. you couldnt care less to switch cause were lazy. very funny thing computer people do is have such brand loyalty over a browser. and we turn around and laugh at coke people, ford people, xbox, how silly is it when you hear people arguing about xbox or ps. this is no doubt even sillier and as a bonus the only reason we say oh firefox has gone downhill but lol ill never use chrome and let them take my freedom and joy never ever... this is again just brand loyalty lol.... if you dont like firefox just switch, if you dont like that switch, if you dont like any browers... well you just have to choose and live with one then dont you. trust me google has all your info so does apple depending on your phone. and trust that your phone will be your id, wallet, everything very soon. ask asia, we are always lagging in tech, it will happen (ofc this isnt directed at you. im just talking sht outloud)
hintymad 2y ago

sltkr 2y ago

Mozilla wastes all its money on its CEO and bullshit DEI programs, while neglecting to develop Firefox, their flagship product. When they spend some money on the browser, they use it to implement user-hostile garbage like Facebook's client-side tracking bullshit. Here's a cute graph of CEO pay vs Firefox market share: https://calpaterson.com/assets/mozilla-boss-pay.svg https://calpaterson.com/assets/mozilla-boss-pay.svg Mozilla is completely fucked. I just hope the company goes bankrupt so its niche of an open source browser can be filled by an organisation that actually cares about its product, and is not just a sham for execs to get millions of dollars from Google for being faux-competition, while fucking over their users.

dtx1 2y ago
[flagged]

alberth 2y ago

Dumb question: who’s Firefox target user? Chrome is able to capture the mass consumer market, due to Google’s dark pattern to nag you to install Chrome anytime you’re on a Google property. Edge target enterprise Fortune 500 user, who is required to use Microsoft/Office 365 at work (and its deep security permission ties to SharePoint). Safari has Mac/iOS audience via being the default on those platform. Brave (based on Chromium), and LibreWolf (based on Firefox) has even carved out those user who value privacy. What’s Firefox target user? Long ago, Firefox was the better IE, and it had great plugins for web developers. But that was before Chrome existed and Google capturing the mass market. And the developers needed to follow its users. So what target user is left for a Firefox? Note: not trolling. I loved Firefox. I just don’t genuine understand who it’s for anymore.

sdf4j 2y ago
I value my privacy and use Firefox. Honestly, I have trust issues with volatile “security focused” forks. I feel the risk of them been tampered are greater than the marginal gains.
- threeseed 2y ago
  Firefox like Chrome still allows long-lived i.e. 400 days first party cookies. This is being abused by advertisers to track you across the web. If they do care about privacy it would be good for them to copy Safari and make this 7 days.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    > If they do care about privacy it would be good for them to copy Safari and make this 7 days. If I get logged out of every website on a weekly basis I'm going to be annoyed. > This is being abused by advertisers to track you across the web. How do they use first party cookies to track you?
    - davidfischer 2y ago
      There's a few ways first party cookies can track you. Probably the biggest single way is Google Analytics which by default uses only first party cookies. Even without cookies at all, GA could track you across the web although first party cookies do make this a little easier and "better". However, first party cookies can help trackers in other ways like for CNAME cloaking[1] which basically makes a first-party cookie function similarly to a third-party one. Disclosure: I work for a small privacy focused ad company. [1] https://webkit.org/blog/11338/cname-cloaking-and-bounce-tracking-defense/ https://webkit.org/blog/11338/cname-cloaking-and-bounce-trac...

rasz 2y ago

I already love Firefox. Its Mozilla what I dont like. Fire the board and especially CEO, transfer assets to Firefox, dissolve foundation and never come back to software sector.

_jackdk_ 2y ago
Or at the very least, let me fund the browser directly!

bitwize 2y ago

I liked Firefox a whole lot better back before Mozilla effectively became a UN NGO with a few developers working on a web browser in a God-forsaken basement somewhere, Milton Waddams style. If they want me to love Firefox, they need to love Firefox. And show that love in the form of vision, resources, and better open-source, open-internet style governance. No execs saying "deplatforming is nice and all, but we really need to go even further beyond". As soon as a browser company makes it a mission to decide what people see online, they cease to be trustworthy as a browser company. So I may as well just use chromium (or ungoogled-chromium).

create-account 2y ago
Goggle still has special privileges to your computer through Ungoogled chromium. I’ve uninstalled them and will only use them on a VM

transfire 2y ago

I already do. Use it everywhere.

SXX 2y ago

I use Firefox on both Mac and Android and it works well. I'd just wish it was proper open source project with BDFL and public team of developers and not some corporate failure.

create-account 2y ago
I’m looking forward for Ladybird browser to be released to the General Public. On the meantime, I’m using LibreWolf instead. I’ve uninstalled Firefox after noticing the surreptitious advertising check
- kentrado 2y ago
  Here's what I have found regarding this: "Thanks F3nd0! There are currently no plans to switch to a less permissive license. And we're perfectly happy using proprietary services like GitHub and Discord as long as they make our work easier and more enjoyable. We recently evaluated a number of alternatives, and found that they all introduced more friction than we were comfortable with. Although the task of building a browser is itself challenging, we're a pragmatic project :)"

pipeline_peak 2y ago

The Meta data collection is no surprise. Mozilla had been pimping out Firefox to Google for quite some time. Given their strong FOSS, they wouldn’t be doing shady deals like this if their future looked vital.

ssss11 2y ago

But they keep going back and forth on this..

tmaly 2y ago

I still love the Firefox focus app on iOS. I use it as my primary browser for privacy.

incomingpain 2y ago

Back in the day, I was one of those who installed firefox on every computer. I used to love firefox. But then they took up california politics and activism. This decision has survived multiple ceos. Mozilla has done it to themselves. New interim ceo wont be different. I can't fathom mozilla has any chance of selecting someone who could dig them out of their activist hole.

M95D 2y ago

> "We’re finding that our messages are particularly sticking with younger generations" Sure. Those are the people who don't know what a decent browser is. They never saw a browser with customizable UI, never saw Opera 12's notepad, never saw IE 5 Web Accessories (Links list, Image list), etc. etc.

err4nt 2y ago

"Deep in the browser’s privacy settings, Firefox introduced an experimental “privacy-preserving ad measurement” toggle, enabling it by default without explanation or disclosure." This isn't even the first time Firefox has collaborated with an ad or marketing company, rolled out a feature behind a checkbox that users didn't know about, turned it on by default. See the case of the 'Alternate Reality Game' ad campaign for Mr Robot a few years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15940144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15940144 I stopped hearing when Mozilla talks about privacy or caring about users. Most companies that treat their users like Mozilla just do it, but it actually adds insult to injury that Mozilla tells you they care, tells you you're important while they do the same things. It's gaslighting or manipulation or lying or something but I'm not going to listen to them any more.