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Calling these book bans is like claiming Facebook "bans" news in Canada. They're not going to be carried by school libraries or be part of the curriculum. You'r

Calling these book bans is like claiming Facebook "bans" news in Canada. They're not going to be carried by school libraries or be part of the curriculum. You're still free to read these books and give them to your kids to read. It's like saying churches "ban" the Koran because they don't teach it in church.

eesmith 2y ago
You can have a ban in certain areas or times without a state-wide prohibition. Consider the sentence "In 1995, California was the first state to enact a statewide smoking ban for restaurants." at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_Un... . Or from a 2003 article at https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2003/10/16/french-students-fired-up-over-smoking-ban-at-school/ https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2003/10/16/french-students-f... : > DOMONT, France: French high school students are up in arms over attempts by teachers to ban them from smoking between classes. "We're not allowed to smoke anywhere on the school grounds any more. They treat us like babies," said Melodie Gambero, 17, a student in Domont, north of Paris, who went on strike with fellow students last week against the new rules. Just like, how the "California ban on singing or chanting at religious services" at https://apnews.com/article/7c11840c31de504a939c926f63006102 https://apnews.com/article/7c11840c31de504a939c926f63006102 did not preclude singing or chanting at home.
- big-green-man 2y ago
  All your examples are actually bans though. They prohibit people from freely engaging in certain behavior. The distinction I'm making is not that the Utah school book ban is contextual or based on location, it's that it's not really a ban at all. They're not going to teach these books or make them available to students. Nobody is telling students "you can't read these books." Would you call video games "banned" because they're not available at the school library?
  - eesmith 2y ago
    Is your point that "ban" is the wrong word because students are not banned from reading such books, even at the school library, so long as they bring their own copy? That's a very narrow and non-standard use of the term. The ban here applies to banning the school from providing such books, and I can easily find other examples where "ban" is used to describe restrictions on a school placed by the district or legislature. - "Across the United States, many states have actively banned the sale of soda in high schools, and evidence suggests that students’ in-school access to soda has declined as a result." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4658713/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4658713/ - "Bill Introduced to Ban Sale of Sports Drinks at Schools" https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/bill-introduced-to-ban-sports-drinks/2075383/ https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/bill-introduced-to-ba... - "Bans on School Junk Food Pay Off in California" https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/bans-on-school-junk-food-pay-off-in-california/ https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/0... (that's a state-wide ban) - "Last year, 44 percent of school districts banned junk food from vending machines, believing that by eliminating unhealthy foods, they'd encourage kids to eat better." https://www.medicaldaily.com/vending-machine-bans-schools-encourage-kids-find-fast-food-elsewhere-changing-diets-297454 https://www.medicaldaily.com/vending-machine-bans-schools-en... (these are district bans) - In Texas, the "state pulled french fries in 2004 and banned deep frying completely in 2009", https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2013/06/28/new-usda-rules-ban-schools-sales-of-sports-drinks-sugary-snacks/ https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2013/06/28/new-usd... Just because the school is banned from proving soft drinks, candy bars, sports drinks, and french fries, that doesn't necessarily mean students are prohibited from bringing the same from home. FWIW, my local library bans children from using the library computers to play fighting and shooting games. That is a ban. Even if a child may play the same game on their own device while at the library. My library also has video games to check out. If the state made a law prohibiting the library from doing so, yes, that would correctly be called a ban on providing video games.
    - big-green-man 2y ago
      It's not a very narrow and non standard use of the term. A ban is a prohibition on doing or having something. That's been the standard definition as long as I can remember. Is Swahili banned in schools because they don't teach a Swahili class? Those are almost all hyperbolic news articles. News articles are designed to stir emotion. Just because multiple click driven publications misuse a word because it drives clicks doesn't mean that's the proper use of the word. A school "banning" themselves from selling junk food isn't a ban, if they didn't allow students to eat junk food at school, that's a ban. I don't sell junk food, is that a ban because you can't buy junk food from me? This has all gotten ridiculous.
- graemep 2y ago
  The headline says that the books are "outlawed" and "banned" in Utah. Its clickbait. An accurate headline with say "Utah bans school libraries from having books by....". The other headlines you quote specify where the ban applies (restaurants, religious services, schools). This headline does not and states it as though its a state wide prohibition.

eesmith 2y ago

You can have a ban in certain areas or times without a state-wide prohibition. Consider the sentence "In 1995, California was the first state to enact a statewide smoking ban for restaurants." at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_smoking_bans_in_the_Un... . Or from a 2003 article at https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2003/10/16/french-students-fired-up-over-smoking-ban-at-school/ https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2003/10/16/french-students-f... : > DOMONT, France: French high school students are up in arms over attempts by teachers to ban them from smoking between classes. "We're not allowed to smoke anywhere on the school grounds any more. They treat us like babies," said Melodie Gambero, 17, a student in Domont, north of Paris, who went on strike with fellow students last week against the new rules. Just like, how the "California ban on singing or chanting at religious services" at https://apnews.com/article/7c11840c31de504a939c926f63006102 https://apnews.com/article/7c11840c31de504a939c926f63006102 did not preclude singing or chanting at home.

big-green-man 2y ago
All your examples are actually bans though. They prohibit people from freely engaging in certain behavior. The distinction I'm making is not that the Utah school book ban is contextual or based on location, it's that it's not really a ban at all. They're not going to teach these books or make them available to students. Nobody is telling students "you can't read these books." Would you call video games "banned" because they're not available at the school library?
- eesmith 2y ago
  Is your point that "ban" is the wrong word because students are not banned from reading such books, even at the school library, so long as they bring their own copy? That's a very narrow and non-standard use of the term. The ban here applies to banning the school from providing such books, and I can easily find other examples where "ban" is used to describe restrictions on a school placed by the district or legislature. - "Across the United States, many states have actively banned the sale of soda in high schools, and evidence suggests that students’ in-school access to soda has declined as a result." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4658713/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4658713/ - "Bill Introduced to Ban Sale of Sports Drinks at Schools" https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/bill-introduced-to-ban-sports-drinks/2075383/ https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/bill-introduced-to-ba... - "Bans on School Junk Food Pay Off in California" https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/08/bans-on-school-junk-food-pay-off-in-california/ https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/0... (that's a state-wide ban) - "Last year, 44 percent of school districts banned junk food from vending machines, believing that by eliminating unhealthy foods, they'd encourage kids to eat better." https://www.medicaldaily.com/vending-machine-bans-schools-encourage-kids-find-fast-food-elsewhere-changing-diets-297454 https://www.medicaldaily.com/vending-machine-bans-schools-en... (these are district bans) - In Texas, the "state pulled french fries in 2004 and banned deep frying completely in 2009", https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2013/06/28/new-usda-rules-ban-schools-sales-of-sports-drinks-sugary-snacks/ https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2013/06/28/new-usd... Just because the school is banned from proving soft drinks, candy bars, sports drinks, and french fries, that doesn't necessarily mean students are prohibited from bringing the same from home. FWIW, my local library bans children from using the library computers to play fighting and shooting games. That is a ban. Even if a child may play the same game on their own device while at the library. My library also has video games to check out. If the state made a law prohibiting the library from doing so, yes, that would correctly be called a ban on providing video games.
  - big-green-man 2y ago
    It's not a very narrow and non standard use of the term. A ban is a prohibition on doing or having something. That's been the standard definition as long as I can remember. Is Swahili banned in schools because they don't teach a Swahili class? Those are almost all hyperbolic news articles. News articles are designed to stir emotion. Just because multiple click driven publications misuse a word because it drives clicks doesn't mean that's the proper use of the word. A school "banning" themselves from selling junk food isn't a ban, if they didn't allow students to eat junk food at school, that's a ban. I don't sell junk food, is that a ban because you can't buy junk food from me? This has all gotten ridiculous.
graemep 2y ago
The headline says that the books are "outlawed" and "banned" in Utah. Its clickbait. An accurate headline with say "Utah bans school libraries from having books by....". The other headlines you quote specify where the ban applies (restaurants, religious services, schools). This headline does not and states it as though its a state wide prohibition.