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>Ask (pressure) the developers into buying some cheap stuff from your shop with their own credit cards This is illegal. I've always refused such "requests" and

>Ask (pressure) the developers into buying some cheap stuff from your shop with their own credit cards This is illegal. I've always refused such "requests" and asked for a company expense card.

ceejayoz 2y ago
Illegal in what jurisdiction?
- rmbyrro 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    I don't think so. It would be illegal not to reimburse the expense in, say, California; https://casetext.com/statute/california-codes/california-labor-code/division-3-employment-relations/chapter-2-employer-and-employee/article-2-obligations-of-employer/section-2802-indemnification-for-necessary-expenditures-and-losses-incurred-in-direct-consequence-of-discharge-of-duties https://casetext.com/statute/california-codes/california-lab...
  - xwolfi 2y ago
    Im in China, fun fact, it is also illegal ! Now is it enforced, probably only a little bit more than in California !
- fny 2y ago
  California is an example, but I’m unclear about other states. Honestly, I’m unclear across the board because there are a lot of employee made purchases that are conditions of employment (phone, computer), and it could be argued that this purchase is a similar necessity especially if it’ll be refunded.
  - CapstanRoller 2y ago
    Any job that asks you to buy your own equipment, especially a computer, is a scam (unless you are a freelancer, in which case you should already have equipment)
insane_dreamer 2y ago
If the employee can get it refunded with an expense report, like any other work expense then in my experience (in California), it’s not illegal. I’ve made plenty of work expenditures with my personal CC that I get reimbursed from the company with an expense report. But *pressuring* employees to do it is plain wrong (and may be illegal).
- CapstanRoller 2y ago
  It is wrong and definitely illegal in California: >Here in the state of California, labor laws define that an employer cannot require a team member to take on expenses that are an integral part of the job. https://www.asmlawyers.com/what-your-california-employer-cant-make-you-pay-for/ https://www.asmlawyers.com/what-your-california-employer-can...
  - bigiain 2y ago
    Two comments. (From a non-CA legal jurisdiction context.) You can always ask (but not pressure or require). Make sure you make it clear there's no downside to them refusing. Another option I've used is to hand cash to co workers and ask them to spend it on their credit card for testing. I've rarely had anyone refuse that. (A few very junior staff members who were maybe right on the credit limit on their cards I suspect.)
    - CapstanRoller 2y ago
      There are always downsides: your personal card can get fraud-flagged, which is a huge pain to fix. It can also get banned by Stripe/Braintree/etc, which will really mess things up until your bank issues you a new card number. Never use a personal card for testing, maybe with the exception of being the sole proprietor of the business or if it's a hobby project.
- serial_dev 2y ago
  Coming back here, not sure if anyone still reads this thread a day later... I am not sure about the legality of it here in Germany, but I'm not really sure I could even prove it. Pressuring us into buying these items are hard to prove, nobody said we need to do anything. You want to be someone who makes sure the feature can launch on time and works correctly, or you want to complain (rightfully) that using your own cards should not be necessary for testing a feature? It was, though, implied 1. we need to make sure the product works and shipped on time, 2. you can't do it without using your own cards. I know people on the team who simply didn't test, but as it was a feature I was mainly responsible for and genuinely interested in, I wanted the launch to be successful. We also eventually got the money back (most of the money? didn't check them all). In the end, it was in total about 25 euros, and that's not a sum that I would sue my employer over, especially as I was "happy enough" at the company.

>Ask (pressure) the developers into buying some cheap stuff from your shop with their own credit cards This is illegal. I've always refused such "requests" and asked for a company expense card.

ceejayoz 2y ago

Illegal in what jurisdiction?

rmbyrro 2y ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  I don't think so. It would be illegal not to reimburse the expense in, say, California; https://casetext.com/statute/california-codes/california-labor-code/division-3-employment-relations/chapter-2-employer-and-employee/article-2-obligations-of-employer/section-2802-indemnification-for-necessary-expenditures-and-losses-incurred-in-direct-consequence-of-discharge-of-duties https://casetext.com/statute/california-codes/california-lab...
- xwolfi 2y ago
  Im in China, fun fact, it is also illegal ! Now is it enforced, probably only a little bit more than in California !
fny 2y ago
California is an example, but I’m unclear about other states. Honestly, I’m unclear across the board because there are a lot of employee made purchases that are conditions of employment (phone, computer), and it could be argued that this purchase is a similar necessity especially if it’ll be refunded.
- CapstanRoller 2y ago
  Any job that asks you to buy your own equipment, especially a computer, is a scam (unless you are a freelancer, in which case you should already have equipment)

insane_dreamer 2y ago

If the employee can get it refunded with an expense report, like any other work expense then in my experience (in California), it’s not illegal. I’ve made plenty of work expenditures with my personal CC that I get reimbursed from the company with an expense report. But *pressuring* employees to do it is plain wrong (and may be illegal).

CapstanRoller 2y ago
It is wrong and definitely illegal in California: >Here in the state of California, labor laws define that an employer cannot require a team member to take on expenses that are an integral part of the job. https://www.asmlawyers.com/what-your-california-employer-cant-make-you-pay-for/ https://www.asmlawyers.com/what-your-california-employer-can...
- bigiain 2y ago
  Two comments. (From a non-CA legal jurisdiction context.) You can always ask (but not pressure or require). Make sure you make it clear there's no downside to them refusing. Another option I've used is to hand cash to co workers and ask them to spend it on their credit card for testing. I've rarely had anyone refuse that. (A few very junior staff members who were maybe right on the credit limit on their cards I suspect.)
  - CapstanRoller 2y ago
    There are always downsides: your personal card can get fraud-flagged, which is a huge pain to fix. It can also get banned by Stripe/Braintree/etc, which will really mess things up until your bank issues you a new card number. Never use a personal card for testing, maybe with the exception of being the sole proprietor of the business or if it's a hobby project.
serial_dev 2y ago
Coming back here, not sure if anyone still reads this thread a day later... I am not sure about the legality of it here in Germany, but I'm not really sure I could even prove it. Pressuring us into buying these items are hard to prove, nobody said we need to do anything. You want to be someone who makes sure the feature can launch on time and works correctly, or you want to complain (rightfully) that using your own cards should not be necessary for testing a feature? It was, though, implied 1. we need to make sure the product works and shipped on time, 2. you can't do it without using your own cards. I know people on the team who simply didn't test, but as it was a feature I was mainly responsible for and genuinely interested in, I wanted the launch to be successful. We also eventually got the money back (most of the money? didn't check them all). In the end, it was in total about 25 euros, and that's not a sum that I would sue my employer over, especially as I was "happy enough" at the company.