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> Scotland and Ireland are intimately linked by a common language (Gaelic) Just on parts of the west coast of Scotland - much of mainland Scotland spoke the Sc
by m-i-l 2y ago
> Scotland and Ireland are intimately linked by a common language (Gaelic)
Just on parts of the west coast of Scotland - much of mainland Scotland spoke the Scots language, with the (now dead) Norn language spoken in the northern areas (with Norse heritage), and other languages in the border areas. The promotion of Scottish Gaelic as a "national language" is very much modern-day myth-building.
- nmeofthestate 2y agoIt depends how far back you go. Gaelic was spoken across the country, not just on the west coast. Nowadays it's been more or less eradicated, except from the Western Isles (where it's not that widely spoken - English is the main spoken language). And it's increasingly become a political football so you see untrue statements made about its history.
- Affric 2y agoDo you have a source for Gaelic being spoken in places like Berwickshire? My understanding from School of was that it went straight from the Brythonic to the Germanic.
- netcan 2y agoScots is an English dialect, descended from Northumbrian English. The dialect is arguably alive in some locales, including some places northern Ireland. To me, the dividing line is code switch. There are rural pubs and such where people will noticeably switch to standard English when speaking to non-locals. Ulster Scots, it is sometimes called. Hard to draw distinct lines, especially since the "standard" English near Scots speaking locales is not very standard. Glasgow, Newry and whatnot have pretty quirky "standard" English. That said, an average person from Newry won't code switch. If you can't understand the accent, they'll just speak loader, slower and more directly at your forehead. To me that makes it "not a dialect."
- arethuza 2y agoI'm originally from a small fishing village in north-east Scotland and used to speak a very broad dialect called Doric (loons, quines etc.) I'm pretty sure this is fairly different from the "Ulster Scots" you mention. What was interesting is that people from a farming background had a very different accent to folks from the coastal fringe - even though they might only be living a couple of kms away!
- netcan 2y agoThat's a very interesting point. We tend to think genealogically about these things. I said "Scots is descended from northumbrian" and that Ulster Scots is spoken in NI. But irl... dialects are porous. They don't really "descend." In any case, I believe that most of the language influence is from the borderlands and the glasgow area. That said, 400 years is a long time... especially considering how young English is.
- arethuza 2y agoAn interesting example is "weans" vs "bairns" for children... first time I heard the former I had no idea what people were talking about. "Weans" seems to be a shortened form of "wee ains" and "bairns" is from Old English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bairn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bairn
- amenhotep 2y agoShe's turned the weans against you mate aye?
- m-i-l 2y agoI'm originally from Shetland, but moved to the Scottish Borders when I was young, and do remember people had a very hard time understanding my Shetland dialect (which I had to lose pretty quickly to communicate locally). And to the original point, neither Shetland nor the Scottish Borders have ever had any Gaelic influence at any point in their history, and recent attempts to claim otherwise tend not to go down too well with the locals.
- olddustytrail 2y agoNo, Scottish Gaelic was the main language at the time of Scotland emerging as a nation and for a couple of centuries afterwards. The demotion of the Scottish Gaelic language is ignorant assertion. Stop listening to it and educate yourself.
- bloqs 2y agoThis is entirely factually incorrect I'm afraid, Scots is essentially accented English
- arethuza 2y agoFar are ye fae?
- olddustytrail 2y agoThis is entirely factually incorrect I'm afraid, English is essentially accented Scots.
- smcl 2y agoDinna ken fit yir spickin aboot
- Qwertious 2y agoLanguages having discrete barriers is a more-or-less modern concept. If you go back in time, basically every town will have a slightly different accent then their neighbor, but if you travel through enough towns eventually you'll find the language completely unintelligible. Like a spatial ship-of-theseus.
- Affric 2y agoGaelic on signs in the eastern borders and Midlothian are my favourite .