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It's an extragovernmental organization unbeholden to any sort of transparency or democratic oversight, which sets policy by persistent lobbying and even overt c

It's an extragovernmental organization unbeholden to any sort of transparency or democratic oversight, which sets policy by persistent lobbying and even overt conflict of interest relationships with public officials (as described in the article). That sounds pretty "shadowy" to me! It's great that our system has ~50 different jurisdictions that can each choose their own regulations, and it makes sense that each of the states doesn't want to spend the resources studying the issues to create their own conclusions and legislation. But these type of organizations should be recognized and regulated for the type of governmental apparatus they most certainly are, rather than being allowed to skate by as "private" entities. As for kei trucks, I feel like I should be in the target market but I just don't see their appeal. But of course, I don't have to personally see their appeal to believe that others should be able to register them.

PaulHoule 2y ago
A lot of Americans are sick and tired of the giantism in our car market. The automobile press gets glazy in the eyes and repeats like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate that the U.S. consumer is stuck on large cars but the reality is the car industry is stuck on large cars. When I was a kid in the 1970s I saw car dealers try every trick in the book to upsell my dad to larger cars. By the late 2010s Japanese brands caught up with American brands: I was looking for a Fit in 2017 but new ones weren't available, I had to settle on a used Fit at new car pricing. Allegedly the factory had been washed out in a flood but the dealer had almost 100 HR-Vs in a line that nobody wanted to buy that are made in the same factory. In the meantime a customer would sell a Fit back to them and they'd sell it to me the next day. Honda discontinued the Fit alleging that sales were poor but in the area around Ithaca it's one of the most popular cars, it is a running gag that another Fit owner will park next to you at the supermarket and I'm sure it would make a great getaway car.
- mindslight 2y ago
  I'm right there with you, which is part of what I meant that I'm in the target market. My preferred vehicle is a coupe, for handling, visibility, and gas mileage. I've even moved the occasional plywood, drywall, and couch on top of my old Civic. My offhanded comment was coming from a place where I want to like kei trucks, but just don't see them really fitting my needs. If a kei truck fell into my life, I'd certainly use it for what it works for - which is seemingly hauling small loads of bulky or heavy goods on local trips. But by the time I'm towing/hauling, I generally want the versatility of a good size trailer. Handling much more weight than a truck, fitting full sheet goods, much lower to the ground for easy loading, versatile with removable sides, and with a little planning I can fork things on/off. If I wanted a dump bed, I'd get a dump trailer. I've been using an inherited "crossover" SUV as the tow vehicle. If I were looking at trucks it would mainly be for a better tow vehicle for highways (heavier and larger engine), which a kei truck does not fill on a few dimensions. I can see kei trucks being handy for certain types of contractors in tight urban environments. But going out to even just the suburbs I think those advantages start go to away in favor of more versatile US-sized pickup trucks. And I think much of the interest in kei trucks isn't even coming from contractors, but rather from DIYers that would be better served by small trailers. But I'd love to learn what I'm missing.
- puzzlingcaptcha 2y ago
  "sales were poor" is a code word for "margins were low"
- Amezarak 2y ago
  https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/honda/fit https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/honda/fit https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/honda/cr-v https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/honda/cr-v I like the Fit, I bought one and had zero issues finding one, they were sitting on the lot for ages. This narrative is silly. Sales were poor. Look at the Fit vs the CRV. Honda was selling 30-50k US Fits a year. They were selling 200-350k CRVs a year. The HRV since the year after its introduction is also crushing Fit sales, but is not a great seller...probably because it's a smaller size; until 2022, it was based on the Fit platform.
- Yeul 2y ago
  You can't make money from a small fuel efficient car I suppose. The margins on a 50k SUV are huge.
  - theshrike79 2y ago
    The big SUVs are exempt from multiple emission laws etc, making them cheaper to produce.
    - Amezarak 2y ago
      Specifically what emissions laws are SUVs not subject to?
      - theshrike79 2y ago
        Can't remember exactly, but the gist of it is like this: Government changed emission laws etc for "normal" cars, excluded heavier cars because "well, nobody would actually drive a 3 ton truck as a daily driver, so they're used by companies". American car companies got a lightbulb moment and started making MASSIVE SUVs that were excluded in regulations. People started buying said massive trucks as daily drivers. Wired article about the SUV loophole: https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-loophole-that-supersized-cars/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-lo... All the US needs to do is include SUVs in EPA etc regulation like normal vehicles and their popularity will dwindle because they'll start costing WAY more than normal sedans and station wagons - like they should
        Amezarak 2y ago
        They are included. The standards just vary by vehicle size, which makes obvious sense: you can’t hold a station wagon to the same standard as a two-passenger compact. It’s also the case that cost already increases with vehicle size. As your own article notes, American consumers have already demonstrated they’re willing to pay huge premiums for larger vehicles. > Automakers have reasons to sell bigger vehicles outside of emissions regulations. SUVs and trucks typically cost only a bit more to make than smaller vehicles, but consumers have demonstrated that they’re willing to pay as much as 50 percent more for them, making profit margins much higher.

PaulHoule 2y ago

A lot of Americans are sick and tired of the giantism in our car market. The automobile press gets glazy in the eyes and repeats like the brainwashed soldiers in The Manchurian Candidate that the U.S. consumer is stuck on large cars but the reality is the car industry is stuck on large cars. When I was a kid in the 1970s I saw car dealers try every trick in the book to upsell my dad to larger cars. By the late 2010s Japanese brands caught up with American brands: I was looking for a Fit in 2017 but new ones weren't available, I had to settle on a used Fit at new car pricing. Allegedly the factory had been washed out in a flood but the dealer had almost 100 HR-Vs in a line that nobody wanted to buy that are made in the same factory. In the meantime a customer would sell a Fit back to them and they'd sell it to me the next day. Honda discontinued the Fit alleging that sales were poor but in the area around Ithaca it's one of the most popular cars, it is a running gag that another Fit owner will park next to you at the supermarket and I'm sure it would make a great getaway car.

mindslight 2y ago
I'm right there with you, which is part of what I meant that I'm in the target market. My preferred vehicle is a coupe, for handling, visibility, and gas mileage. I've even moved the occasional plywood, drywall, and couch on top of my old Civic. My offhanded comment was coming from a place where I want to like kei trucks, but just don't see them really fitting my needs. If a kei truck fell into my life, I'd certainly use it for what it works for - which is seemingly hauling small loads of bulky or heavy goods on local trips. But by the time I'm towing/hauling, I generally want the versatility of a good size trailer. Handling much more weight than a truck, fitting full sheet goods, much lower to the ground for easy loading, versatile with removable sides, and with a little planning I can fork things on/off. If I wanted a dump bed, I'd get a dump trailer. I've been using an inherited "crossover" SUV as the tow vehicle. If I were looking at trucks it would mainly be for a better tow vehicle for highways (heavier and larger engine), which a kei truck does not fill on a few dimensions. I can see kei trucks being handy for certain types of contractors in tight urban environments. But going out to even just the suburbs I think those advantages start go to away in favor of more versatile US-sized pickup trucks. And I think much of the interest in kei trucks isn't even coming from contractors, but rather from DIYers that would be better served by small trailers. But I'd love to learn what I'm missing.
puzzlingcaptcha 2y ago
"sales were poor" is a code word for "margins were low"
Amezarak 2y ago
https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/honda/fit https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/honda/fit https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/honda/cr-v https://carfigures.com/us-market-brand/honda/cr-v I like the Fit, I bought one and had zero issues finding one, they were sitting on the lot for ages. This narrative is silly. Sales were poor. Look at the Fit vs the CRV. Honda was selling 30-50k US Fits a year. They were selling 200-350k CRVs a year. The HRV since the year after its introduction is also crushing Fit sales, but is not a great seller...probably because it's a smaller size; until 2022, it was based on the Fit platform.
Yeul 2y ago
You can't make money from a small fuel efficient car I suppose. The margins on a 50k SUV are huge.
- theshrike79 2y ago
  The big SUVs are exempt from multiple emission laws etc, making them cheaper to produce.
  - Amezarak 2y ago
    Specifically what emissions laws are SUVs not subject to?
    - theshrike79 2y ago
      Can't remember exactly, but the gist of it is like this: Government changed emission laws etc for "normal" cars, excluded heavier cars because "well, nobody would actually drive a 3 ton truck as a daily driver, so they're used by companies". American car companies got a lightbulb moment and started making MASSIVE SUVs that were excluded in regulations. People started buying said massive trucks as daily drivers. Wired article about the SUV loophole: https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-loophole-that-supersized-cars/ https://www.wired.com/story/the-us-wants-to-close-the-suv-lo... All the US needs to do is include SUVs in EPA etc regulation like normal vehicles and their popularity will dwindle because they'll start costing WAY more than normal sedans and station wagons - like they should
      - Amezarak 2y ago
        They are included. The standards just vary by vehicle size, which makes obvious sense: you can’t hold a station wagon to the same standard as a two-passenger compact. It’s also the case that cost already increases with vehicle size. As your own article notes, American consumers have already demonstrated they’re willing to pay huge premiums for larger vehicles. > Automakers have reasons to sell bigger vehicles outside of emissions regulations. SUVs and trucks typically cost only a bit more to make than smaller vehicles, but consumers have demonstrated that they’re willing to pay as much as 50 percent more for them, making profit margins much higher.