4 ms·

It's a quality issue. Beer served in a new, spotlessly clean glass will have a distinct foamy head on top of clear liquid. If the glass is dirty or scuffed, bub

It's a quality issue. Beer served in a new, spotlessly clean glass will have a distinct foamy head on top of clear liquid. If the glass is dirty or scuffed, bubbles will rapidly form on the sides of the glass, which seriously affects the quality of the beer. The head will be thin and uneven, the liquid will look murky and the beer will taste flat. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2971/0116/files/dirty_beer_glasses_collage.png https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2971/0116/files/dirty_beer... This isn't meant to be a nationalistic point, but America has a relatively undeveloped beer culture; beer is often kept and served very poorly and drinkers rarely notice. British, Belgian or German drinkers will notice, complain and tell all their friends if you aren't serving beer properly.

javaunsafe2019 2y ago
German here: as if! No one except a few nerds would notice in real life.
- aardvarkr 2y ago
  And that’s why I love HN!
- lb1lf 2y ago
  Those nerds tend to be quite vocal about it, though! (I count myself amongst them, despite only being 3/32 German...)
  - g15jv2dp 2y ago
    > 3/32 German What is this even supposed to mean?
    - lb1lf 2y ago
      Nothing more complex than three great-great-grandparents being German. (Oh, and it was meant as a joke - I definitely don't think of myself as part German!)
    - CRConrad 2y ago
      How did your thinking work there, not to get that? Not (mostly...) mocking; genuinely curious.
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    >Those nerds tend to be quite vocal about it, though! Where are they loud? I never hear people in the pub/bar shout "My glass has micro-scratches, this is undrinkable!".
Rinzler89 2y ago
>British, Belgian or German drinkers will notice, complain and tell all their friends if you aren't serving beer properly. Yeah, no, that's an American PoV/meme to think all those nationalities somehow are fickle about the glass of the beer when in reality most of them wouldn't even notice in real life. Beer drinking is a causal activity there, not a sommelier activity where every detail is scrutinized. You go to the park and it's full of Germans drinking beer out damn aluminum cans. Most bars are so dark and loud and people so drunk, the last thing they care about is if their beer glass is pitch perfect. People do care about the quality of the beer, but the quality of the glass, not so much.
- panick21_ 2y ago
  Beer drinking being casual isn't a counter argument. Even if its a minority, there are a lots of beer 'nerds' who take drinking beer seriously. And those are usually the people who have some amount of influence threw various mechanisms. As a Guinness fan I gladly go to a pub that does it correctly, compared to one that doesn't. So the idea that there is a business impact to having lower quality experience even visiaul can not just be ignored by saying 'drinking is causal'. As a pub you have to try to offer something that you can't get from aluminum cans in the park.
  - lo_zamoyski 2y ago
    I suspect the controversial proposition, whether intended or not, is that everyone in countries with a notable beer tradition is a snob who will refuse to drink anything but the best served according to the most exacting standards. Clearly, this is false, and it is enough to visit such a country or look at beer sales to know that this is the case. At the same time, I will agree that the average beer and what is considered "drinkable" in probably any European country is significantly better than the swill that passes as average in the US.
- jdietrich 2y ago
  There are bad pubs and indifferent drinkers anywhere, but there's also a very large and long-standing market for quality beer and vast numbers of publicans who serve great beer without any fanfare. The Campaign for Real Ale has 150,000 dues-paying members. Sitting in an 18th century pub and drinking beer that was brewed within walking distance is a largely unremarkable experience in the UK. It isn't a matter of being a connoisseur's fetish, but about the basic standards expected by a large bulk of drinkers. "Craft beer" is a fairly novel and niche product in the US, but even Wetherspoons - a huge chain known for selling very cheap beer - serves a wide range of (often local) real ale in most of their pubs. Many thousands of British pubs are members of Cask Marque, a voluntary accreditation scheme that requires regular inspections of their cellar-keeping and the quality of their beer. America has a burgeoning beer culture, but much of the country is still a beer desert where the only widely available beers are pasteurised lagers. The effects of prohibition are still being felt today, because it takes generations to develop a proper beer culture. https://camra.org.uk/ https://camra.org.uk/ https://cask-marque.co.uk/ https://cask-marque.co.uk/
walthamstow 2y ago
Correct. Beer is the one item in Britain that is acceptable to send back. My pet peeve is beer served in a glass that is still warm from the dishwasher. Food, god no, wouldn't want to cause a fuss. Uncooked chicken? I'll just push it to the side and eat the rest.
- gspencley 2y ago
  > Uncooked chicken? I'll just push it to the side and eat the rest. Really? You're not just being facetious? I NEVER send food back if I just don't like it. If it's under-seasoned or not up to my standards, no big deal. I'll go elsewhere next time. But if it's a food safety issue, or if I order something pricey and it's missing a key ingredient (they don't have to take it back in that case, just bring that ingredient to the table and we're good). I mean, if you paid for it and you can't eat it because it's unsafe or you didn't get what you paid for ... that should be totally understandable and expected that it gets sent back. I've worked in food service and while I would never spit on anyone's food no matter how much of a dick they are, I wouldn't even feel the temptation if it was a legit kitchen screw-up.
  - walthamstow 2y ago
    No my friend it was just a joke about British manners
ginko 2y ago
>It's a quality issue. Beer served in a new, spotlessly clean glass will have a distinct foamy head on top of clear liquid. I thought Brits hate head on beer.
- FreezingKeeper 2y ago
  It's a North-South thing https://bucolicaholic.com/2016/09/01/on-real-ale-the-sparkler/ https://bucolicaholic.com/2016/09/01/on-real-ale-the-sparkle...
- jdietrich 2y ago
  No, they just hate excessive head that is inappropriate to the beer. Some amount of head is essential to properly release the aroma of beer. A traditional cask ale is hand-pumped and served without additional gas, so it will tend to have a smaller head than a beer that has added gas. No more than 5% of the glass should be filled with head. Many pubs use glasses with a marked fill line, allowing for space for a head while still providing a full measure of liquid. Northern drinkers traditionally prefer a thicker, creamier head and used beer pumps with a "sparkler" nozzle to provide this, while southern drinkers typically preferred very little head; this historic divide is starting to soften in recent years. Some European beer styles are properly served with a bigger and frothier head, particularly wheat beers and pilsners.
tristor 2y ago
> This isn't meant to be a nationalistic point, but America has a relatively undeveloped beer culture; beer is often kept and served very poorly and drinkers rarely notice. You are extremely incorrect on this point. I think this is true if you think of your typical dive bar in the US, but this is more a /cost/ point than a point of the beer culture. Dive bars are not expected to be good, just cheap. The best beers in the world of every style (except Belgian beers) are in made in the US. The US revived craft brewing and spread it around the world, and brought craft brewing to parts of the world that never had any serious beer culture. American beer is /far/ far more than light beers shotgunned out of a can in the parking lot during a college football game. There are numerous craft bars in the US that take the quality of their pours, including the quality of the glassware very seriously. The US helped to pioneer the certification process for serving beer, modeled after that for wine. The BJCP was founded in 1985 in Colorado, as an offshoot of the American Homebrewer's Association, and the Cicerone Certification program was founded 25 years ago in the US as well. The US has done a significant amount, not just for itself, but for the world, to establish high standards of excellence for the making of beer and the serving of beer. I say this as someone who is an expert on beer. I have traveled to more than 70 countries, in part specifically to drink beer. I have brewed beer for more than 20 years. I have judged beer competitions. I am a certified cicerone. I have drank more than ten thousand unique beers and been to more than 2500 breweries in my life. It is completely ignorant (and a nationalistic ignorance) to say that the US has a poor beer culture. This might have been true in the 1970s, it is not true today, and it hasn't been true for decades.

javaunsafe2019 2y ago

German here: as if! No one except a few nerds would notice in real life.

aardvarkr 2y ago
And that’s why I love HN!
lb1lf 2y ago
Those nerds tend to be quite vocal about it, though! (I count myself amongst them, despite only being 3/32 German...)
- g15jv2dp 2y ago
  > 3/32 German What is this even supposed to mean?
  - lb1lf 2y ago
    Nothing more complex than three great-great-grandparents being German. (Oh, and it was meant as a joke - I definitely don't think of myself as part German!)
  - CRConrad 2y ago
    How did your thinking work there, not to get that? Not (mostly...) mocking; genuinely curious.
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  >Those nerds tend to be quite vocal about it, though! Where are they loud? I never hear people in the pub/bar shout "My glass has micro-scratches, this is undrinkable!".

Rinzler89 2y ago

>British, Belgian or German drinkers will notice, complain and tell all their friends if you aren't serving beer properly. Yeah, no, that's an American PoV/meme to think all those nationalities somehow are fickle about the glass of the beer when in reality most of them wouldn't even notice in real life. Beer drinking is a causal activity there, not a sommelier activity where every detail is scrutinized. You go to the park and it's full of Germans drinking beer out damn aluminum cans. Most bars are so dark and loud and people so drunk, the last thing they care about is if their beer glass is pitch perfect. People do care about the quality of the beer, but the quality of the glass, not so much.

panick21_ 2y ago
Beer drinking being casual isn't a counter argument. Even if its a minority, there are a lots of beer 'nerds' who take drinking beer seriously. And those are usually the people who have some amount of influence threw various mechanisms. As a Guinness fan I gladly go to a pub that does it correctly, compared to one that doesn't. So the idea that there is a business impact to having lower quality experience even visiaul can not just be ignored by saying 'drinking is causal'. As a pub you have to try to offer something that you can't get from aluminum cans in the park.
- lo_zamoyski 2y ago
  I suspect the controversial proposition, whether intended or not, is that everyone in countries with a notable beer tradition is a snob who will refuse to drink anything but the best served according to the most exacting standards. Clearly, this is false, and it is enough to visit such a country or look at beer sales to know that this is the case. At the same time, I will agree that the average beer and what is considered "drinkable" in probably any European country is significantly better than the swill that passes as average in the US.
jdietrich 2y ago
There are bad pubs and indifferent drinkers anywhere, but there's also a very large and long-standing market for quality beer and vast numbers of publicans who serve great beer without any fanfare. The Campaign for Real Ale has 150,000 dues-paying members. Sitting in an 18th century pub and drinking beer that was brewed within walking distance is a largely unremarkable experience in the UK. It isn't a matter of being a connoisseur's fetish, but about the basic standards expected by a large bulk of drinkers. "Craft beer" is a fairly novel and niche product in the US, but even Wetherspoons - a huge chain known for selling very cheap beer - serves a wide range of (often local) real ale in most of their pubs. Many thousands of British pubs are members of Cask Marque, a voluntary accreditation scheme that requires regular inspections of their cellar-keeping and the quality of their beer. America has a burgeoning beer culture, but much of the country is still a beer desert where the only widely available beers are pasteurised lagers. The effects of prohibition are still being felt today, because it takes generations to develop a proper beer culture. https://camra.org.uk/ https://camra.org.uk/ https://cask-marque.co.uk/ https://cask-marque.co.uk/

walthamstow 2y ago

Correct. Beer is the one item in Britain that is acceptable to send back. My pet peeve is beer served in a glass that is still warm from the dishwasher. Food, god no, wouldn't want to cause a fuss. Uncooked chicken? I'll just push it to the side and eat the rest.

gspencley 2y ago
> Uncooked chicken? I'll just push it to the side and eat the rest. Really? You're not just being facetious? I NEVER send food back if I just don't like it. If it's under-seasoned or not up to my standards, no big deal. I'll go elsewhere next time. But if it's a food safety issue, or if I order something pricey and it's missing a key ingredient (they don't have to take it back in that case, just bring that ingredient to the table and we're good). I mean, if you paid for it and you can't eat it because it's unsafe or you didn't get what you paid for ... that should be totally understandable and expected that it gets sent back. I've worked in food service and while I would never spit on anyone's food no matter how much of a dick they are, I wouldn't even feel the temptation if it was a legit kitchen screw-up.
- walthamstow 2y ago
  No my friend it was just a joke about British manners

ginko 2y ago

>It's a quality issue. Beer served in a new, spotlessly clean glass will have a distinct foamy head on top of clear liquid. I thought Brits hate head on beer.

FreezingKeeper 2y ago
It's a North-South thing https://bucolicaholic.com/2016/09/01/on-real-ale-the-sparkler/ https://bucolicaholic.com/2016/09/01/on-real-ale-the-sparkle...
jdietrich 2y ago
No, they just hate excessive head that is inappropriate to the beer. Some amount of head is essential to properly release the aroma of beer. A traditional cask ale is hand-pumped and served without additional gas, so it will tend to have a smaller head than a beer that has added gas. No more than 5% of the glass should be filled with head. Many pubs use glasses with a marked fill line, allowing for space for a head while still providing a full measure of liquid. Northern drinkers traditionally prefer a thicker, creamier head and used beer pumps with a "sparkler" nozzle to provide this, while southern drinkers typically preferred very little head; this historic divide is starting to soften in recent years. Some European beer styles are properly served with a bigger and frothier head, particularly wheat beers and pilsners.

tristor 2y ago

> This isn't meant to be a nationalistic point, but America has a relatively undeveloped beer culture; beer is often kept and served very poorly and drinkers rarely notice. You are extremely incorrect on this point. I think this is true if you think of your typical dive bar in the US, but this is more a /cost/ point than a point of the beer culture. Dive bars are not expected to be good, just cheap. The best beers in the world of every style (except Belgian beers) are in made in the US. The US revived craft brewing and spread it around the world, and brought craft brewing to parts of the world that never had any serious beer culture. American beer is /far/ far more than light beers shotgunned out of a can in the parking lot during a college football game. There are numerous craft bars in the US that take the quality of their pours, including the quality of the glassware very seriously. The US helped to pioneer the certification process for serving beer, modeled after that for wine. The BJCP was founded in 1985 in Colorado, as an offshoot of the American Homebrewer's Association, and the Cicerone Certification program was founded 25 years ago in the US as well. The US has done a significant amount, not just for itself, but for the world, to establish high standards of excellence for the making of beer and the serving of beer. I say this as someone who is an expert on beer. I have traveled to more than 70 countries, in part specifically to drink beer. I have brewed beer for more than 20 years. I have judged beer competitions. I am a certified cicerone. I have drank more than ten thousand unique beers and been to more than 2500 breweries in my life. It is completely ignorant (and a nationalistic ignorance) to say that the US has a poor beer culture. This might have been true in the 1970s, it is not true today, and it hasn't been true for decades.