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And they'll say that it's only bad when China does it.

by UncleSlacky 2y ago

mdhb 2y ago
[flagged]
- number6 2y ago
  Considered illegitimate by whom? Chinese citizens might find the requests from the Chinese government legitimate. On the other hand, citizens of the EU might find requests from the US government illegitimate. US national security is far less a legitimate reason if you are not a citizen of the US.
  - mdhb 2y ago
    We are talking about the US context here specifically and the legal process they have set up in place to ensure the rights of their citizens are balanced appropriately against the country’s national security concerns. If you’re making a larger point that espionage is a thing however that’s a very different conversation and not a particularly fruitful one I don’t think. In the same way that all people across the world are potential targets of collection from any group who has the capability to do so. At that point we are just back to the exact same set of arguments that apply to online advertising for example. There are things in there to be pissed about no doubt but it’s a lot more nuanced than that too.
- usrnm 2y ago
  Actually, we know for a fact that the US 3-letter agencies routinely engage in illegal activities and perform illegitimate searches even on their own citizens, let alone the rest of the world. It's been 11 years since Snowden leaks, it's insane how many people seem to pretend that it never happened
- ThunderSizzle 2y ago
  We have investigated ourselves and found ourselves almost entirely perfect. Meanwhile, Google just heavily obfuscated news on Trump’s assassination attempt, including many of the reports on the Congressional hearings.
  - krapp 2y ago
    "Trump assassination attempt" brings up a ton of information from Google. When and how was this "heavily obfuscated?" I've seen numerous claims posted here about Google "mass censoring" something and it always seems to be blown out of proportion.
    - christophilus 2y ago
      It was part of their political violence filter[0], and has been fixed. I’m no fan of Google’s, but that does seem like a legitimate filter to have in place. I’d give Google the pass on this one. [0] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/google-admits-to-omitting-trump-assassination-attempt-from-search-autocomplete-feature/ar-AA1ohSVD https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/google-admits-to-omi...
      - input_sh 2y ago
        ...only impacting autofill, not the actual search results.
        ThunderSizzle 2y ago
        The results were crap. It was articles from MSM with no details, just opinions. None of the reports on Congressional Hearings and their findings ever showed up in the top for me.
        krapp 2y ago
        So the conspiracy being alleged is that Google "censored" the autofill but not the actual search (which they admitted to) and... featured mainstream media sources (which they always do) and... somehow got all of those news agencies to purposely write stories badly, omitting details and pushing opinions (which they always do) so that Google could push the results for the real stories past the fold, where it would take the monumental effort of scrolling the mouse wheel and maybe clicking a link to find? Those devious bastards....
- hulitu 2y ago
  > I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to understand the difference between legitimate and illegitimate requests. Does the law mandates unlimited access to all data ? Even for people who are not suspected of commiting a crime ?
snakeyjake 2y ago
It is impossible to have a critical conversation about the government and its reach into one's personal data on the Chinese internet so I don't know if the comparison is apt.

And they'll say that it's only bad when China does it.

mdhb 2y ago

[flagged]

number6 2y ago
Considered illegitimate by whom? Chinese citizens might find the requests from the Chinese government legitimate. On the other hand, citizens of the EU might find requests from the US government illegitimate. US national security is far less a legitimate reason if you are not a citizen of the US.
- mdhb 2y ago
  We are talking about the US context here specifically and the legal process they have set up in place to ensure the rights of their citizens are balanced appropriately against the country’s national security concerns. If you’re making a larger point that espionage is a thing however that’s a very different conversation and not a particularly fruitful one I don’t think. In the same way that all people across the world are potential targets of collection from any group who has the capability to do so. At that point we are just back to the exact same set of arguments that apply to online advertising for example. There are things in there to be pissed about no doubt but it’s a lot more nuanced than that too.
usrnm 2y ago
Actually, we know for a fact that the US 3-letter agencies routinely engage in illegal activities and perform illegitimate searches even on their own citizens, let alone the rest of the world. It's been 11 years since Snowden leaks, it's insane how many people seem to pretend that it never happened
ThunderSizzle 2y ago
We have investigated ourselves and found ourselves almost entirely perfect. Meanwhile, Google just heavily obfuscated news on Trump’s assassination attempt, including many of the reports on the Congressional hearings.
- krapp 2y ago
  "Trump assassination attempt" brings up a ton of information from Google. When and how was this "heavily obfuscated?" I've seen numerous claims posted here about Google "mass censoring" something and it always seems to be blown out of proportion.
  - christophilus 2y ago
    It was part of their political violence filter[0], and has been fixed. I’m no fan of Google’s, but that does seem like a legitimate filter to have in place. I’d give Google the pass on this one. [0] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/google-admits-to-omitting-trump-assassination-attempt-from-search-autocomplete-feature/ar-AA1ohSVD https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/google-admits-to-omi...
    - input_sh 2y ago
      ...only impacting autofill, not the actual search results.
      - ThunderSizzle 2y ago
        The results were crap. It was articles from MSM with no details, just opinions. None of the reports on Congressional Hearings and their findings ever showed up in the top for me.
        krapp 2y ago
        So the conspiracy being alleged is that Google "censored" the autofill but not the actual search (which they admitted to) and... featured mainstream media sources (which they always do) and... somehow got all of those news agencies to purposely write stories badly, omitting details and pushing opinions (which they always do) so that Google could push the results for the real stories past the fold, where it would take the monumental effort of scrolling the mouse wheel and maybe clicking a link to find? Those devious bastards....
hulitu 2y ago
> I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to understand the difference between legitimate and illegitimate requests. Does the law mandates unlimited access to all data ? Even for people who are not suspected of commiting a crime ?

snakeyjake 2y ago

It is impossible to have a critical conversation about the government and its reach into one's personal data on the Chinese internet so I don't know if the comparison is apt.