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It's pretty unlikely that it's around the corner. Intel uses their own foundry and designs and AMD uses their own designs with TSMC as the foundry. If it's a fo

It's pretty unlikely that it's around the corner. Intel uses their own foundry and designs and AMD uses their own designs with TSMC as the foundry. If it's a foundry issue then Apple would be in hot water right now since they use the cutting edge. So I think AMD is in the clear.

stingraycharles 2y ago
It’s not a foundry issue, it’s a “how far can we push voltage for better performance to compensate for older architectures” problem. That’s why it can be resolved using a microcode update.
- rowanG077 2y ago
  How far you can push the voltage is definitely foundry technology dependent. If Intel foundry internally specced a voltage that actually damages a chip I would say it IS a foundry issue.
- willis936 2y ago
  Via oxidation is a foundry issue. >Intel also confirmed a rumored issue with via oxidation in its 7nm node, but said those issues were corrected in 2023 and didn't contribute to the failures. Do you trust Intel to not lie about a widespread unfixable problem? https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-finally-announces-a-solution-for-cpu-crashing-errors-claims-elevated-voltages-are-the-root-cause-fix-coming-by-mid-august https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-finall...
  - paulmd 2y ago
    I trust them not to make provably false statements, yeah. Walking the line of "well, we didn't say..." is one thing but if they say the oxidation issue was ended in may 2023 then I don't see a reason to doubt that.
    - willis936 2y ago
      And the 13th gen CPUs sold between October 2022 and May 2023? "Do not contribute to failures" can be technically not a lie because so much is omitted by not specifying which failures.
      - paulmd 2y ago
        What about them? There’s no reason to believe oxidation defects during manufacture is a cause of those failures. This is a complex problem with several interacting causes and failure modes, and assuming that oxidation is the cause of all of them (that there exist chips not during the oxidation defect window that failed, therefore the oxidation defect window must be larger) is circular reasoning.

stingraycharles 2y ago

It’s not a foundry issue, it’s a “how far can we push voltage for better performance to compensate for older architectures” problem. That’s why it can be resolved using a microcode update.

rowanG077 2y ago
How far you can push the voltage is definitely foundry technology dependent. If Intel foundry internally specced a voltage that actually damages a chip I would say it IS a foundry issue.
willis936 2y ago
Via oxidation is a foundry issue. >Intel also confirmed a rumored issue with via oxidation in its 7nm node, but said those issues were corrected in 2023 and didn't contribute to the failures. Do you trust Intel to not lie about a widespread unfixable problem? https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-finally-announces-a-solution-for-cpu-crashing-errors-claims-elevated-voltages-are-the-root-cause-fix-coming-by-mid-august https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-finall...
- paulmd 2y ago
  I trust them not to make provably false statements, yeah. Walking the line of "well, we didn't say..." is one thing but if they say the oxidation issue was ended in may 2023 then I don't see a reason to doubt that.
  - willis936 2y ago
    And the 13th gen CPUs sold between October 2022 and May 2023? "Do not contribute to failures" can be technically not a lie because so much is omitted by not specifying which failures.
    - paulmd 2y ago
      What about them? There’s no reason to believe oxidation defects during manufacture is a cause of those failures. This is a complex problem with several interacting causes and failure modes, and assuming that oxidation is the cause of all of them (that there exist chips not during the oxidation defect window that failed, therefore the oxidation defect window must be larger) is circular reasoning.