3 ms·

Could I suggest this piece from the director of Hope Not Hate? It sounds like you've been reading people repeating the claims that there is somehow a justificat

by crtasm 2y ago

Could I suggest this piece from the director of Hope Not Hate? It sounds like you've been reading people repeating the claims that there is somehow a justification for the violence. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/05/far-right-riots-legitimate-anger-racist-violence https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/aug/0...

wakawaka28 2y ago
[flagged]
- Incipient 2y ago
  It's very hard to trust any source on this topic, which makes it impossible to get a sense of scale, however anecdotal evidence definitely supports 'incompatible' immigration being a problem. Its not to say we don't have internal problems already, but that doesn't justify importing new problems. I'm not too sure what the rationale behind the record immigration happening across the "West" is (UK, USA, AU, EU). Is it a population decline thing?
- bloopernova 2y ago
  15 million people would cause a refugee crisis. There would be huge camps and managing them would be an enormous effort. The actual asylum seeker numbers: 2020: 11,840 2021: 11,454 2022: 25,519 2023: 60,000 2024: 60,000+ Not anywhere near "15 million"
  - n4r9 2y ago
    That's comparable to the UK figures. In 2023 there were around 80k asylum seekers and refugees, making up around 11% of total immigration. That's the highest since a peak of similar height in 2002. Now, as then, asylum seekers are primarily people from wartorn countries like Aghanistan, Ukraine, or Syria, or people who face persecution for their beliefs or identity. They are generally choosing the UK because they have cultural ties (sometimes due to historic colonialisation by the UK) and/or can speak the language. What gets me is the current obsession over small boat crossings. This is less than half of all asylum seekers, i.e. 5% or less of total immigration. Most of these people are from wartorn countries, have a valid claim to asylum, and some kind of link to the country. I find it abhorrent that certain demagogues are manipulating the narrative to make it look like this is one of the biggest issues facing the UK. We should absolutely tackle the people-smuggling gangs that are putting migrants' lives at risk by overloading them onto dinghies and shoving them into the Channel. One of the best ways to do this would be to work on providing a safe alternative path to asylum, as for example exists for Ukrainians and Hong Kongers.
  - wakawaka28 2y ago
    Lol those numbers are probably people who made it to court. Not very long ago (December), border control encountered 15k people per day who turned themselves in for processing. They're getting court dates up to 8 years out. In the meantime, they get to stay and work.
    - n4r9 2y ago
      For the benefit of anyone else who gets this far and is curious about the actual figures... Over December, there were just under 250k encounters with migrants crossing from Mexico. That is an average of roughly 8k per day. These are apprehended and detained pending a decision on whether they can remain, and are not given work authorization [1]. Migrants can be deported if they have committed certain crimes, or are not deemed to be in any danger in their home country. It is wildly misleading to suggest that 15k people per day are getting through the border and starting work in the US. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/migrant-encounters-at-the-us-mexico-border-hit-a-record-high-at-the-end-of-2023/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/migrant-e... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1226 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1226

by crtasm 2y ago

wakawaka28 2y ago

[flagged]

Incipient 2y ago
It's very hard to trust any source on this topic, which makes it impossible to get a sense of scale, however anecdotal evidence definitely supports 'incompatible' immigration being a problem. Its not to say we don't have internal problems already, but that doesn't justify importing new problems. I'm not too sure what the rationale behind the record immigration happening across the "West" is (UK, USA, AU, EU). Is it a population decline thing?
bloopernova 2y ago
15 million people would cause a refugee crisis. There would be huge camps and managing them would be an enormous effort. The actual asylum seeker numbers: 2020: 11,840 2021: 11,454 2022: 25,519 2023: 60,000 2024: 60,000+ Not anywhere near "15 million"
- n4r9 2y ago
  That's comparable to the UK figures. In 2023 there were around 80k asylum seekers and refugees, making up around 11% of total immigration. That's the highest since a peak of similar height in 2002. Now, as then, asylum seekers are primarily people from wartorn countries like Aghanistan, Ukraine, or Syria, or people who face persecution for their beliefs or identity. They are generally choosing the UK because they have cultural ties (sometimes due to historic colonialisation by the UK) and/or can speak the language. What gets me is the current obsession over small boat crossings. This is less than half of all asylum seekers, i.e. 5% or less of total immigration. Most of these people are from wartorn countries, have a valid claim to asylum, and some kind of link to the country. I find it abhorrent that certain demagogues are manipulating the narrative to make it look like this is one of the biggest issues facing the UK. We should absolutely tackle the people-smuggling gangs that are putting migrants' lives at risk by overloading them onto dinghies and shoving them into the Channel. One of the best ways to do this would be to work on providing a safe alternative path to asylum, as for example exists for Ukrainians and Hong Kongers.
- wakawaka28 2y ago
  Lol those numbers are probably people who made it to court. Not very long ago (December), border control encountered 15k people per day who turned themselves in for processing. They're getting court dates up to 8 years out. In the meantime, they get to stay and work.
  - n4r9 2y ago
    For the benefit of anyone else who gets this far and is curious about the actual figures... Over December, there were just under 250k encounters with migrants crossing from Mexico. That is an average of roughly 8k per day. These are apprehended and detained pending a decision on whether they can remain, and are not given work authorization [1]. Migrants can be deported if they have committed certain crimes, or are not deemed to be in any danger in their home country. It is wildly misleading to suggest that 15k people per day are getting through the border and starting work in the US. [0] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/migrant-encounters-at-the-us-mexico-border-hit-a-record-high-at-the-end-of-2023/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/02/15/migrant-e... [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1226 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1226