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Part of the problem here is that it seems like you can't actually pedal this thing, which is to me (and a lot of lawmakers in the US) sort of foundational to th

Part of the problem here is that it seems like you can't actually pedal this thing, which is to me (and a lot of lawmakers in the US) sort of foundational to the concept "bicycle". The other problem here is that with ever-increasing electric motor technology, old standards like engine displacement, or even power supply (gas vs electric) are not great indicators of the maximum speed of these things. As it stands, while 13 km/h is not that fast (its a reasonable jogging pace), it is very fast if the user is zoned out on their phone, which happens all too often in e.g. airports or tourist zones.

recursive 2y ago
I see a lot of scooters around here with vestigial compliance pedals, mostly driven by gig delivery drivers. The form factor looks more like a moped. No one would ever use those pedals. Clearly they're there to skirt some kind of regulation. I'm not sure what the fix is, but "able to pedaled" is kind of a ridiculous compromise.
- throwaway22032 2y ago
  In the UK the pedals are supposed to provide the assist. Handlebar mounted throttles are not allowed. None of this is enforced.
- emchammer 2y ago
  Vestigial pedals, LOL. Many deliveristas in NYC are seemingly competent riders. I noticed that an increasing number of them have bright red and blue blinking lights the exact color of police car emergency lights. That is distracting and bothers me more than a lot of their riding.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  NY state has three classes since 2020: pedal-assist only, pedals with independent hand throttle up to 20 MPH, pedals with independent hand throttle up to 25 MPH (NYC only, slower than standard class 3).
- janstice 2y ago
  In 60s/70s France 14 year olds could ride motorised bicycles, so Vespa sold a Pedalo - a regular (but lower-powered I think) Vespa scooter with pedals as well as 2-stroke engine - you had to put the engine in neutral to pedal (I bet not many 14 year olds did this).
  - umeshunni 2y ago
    Isn't that what a moped is?
    - Ekaros 2y ago
      Whole terminology is pretty mixed up and messy. Moped is that, but then again speed limited scooters like Vespa without the pedals could also be moped. And so could speed and engine limited motorcycle of other style... In general I understand moped as anything with limited speed/engine size.
  - codetrotter 2y ago
    Here’s a picture of that Vespa with pedals for anyone else interested in seeing it: https://www.museopiaggio.it/en/models/1-vespa/25-50-pedali-v5a1t https://www.museopiaggio.it/en/models/1-vespa/25-50-pedali-v...
- petsfed 2y ago
  So long as the pedals are hooked up to the drive train in such a way that they actually work, I don't actually have any complaint. If the user can easily switch to backup-pedal power to traverse e.g. Millenium Park in Chicago, then I don't really see the problem. Certainly, failure to use that function is a problem, but I don't think its good for society if we allow police to stop actual bicyclists on suspicion of riding a pedal assist vehicle. These things are pretty obvious when in use: bikes don't coast, unassisted, uphill at the speeds these things frequently achieve.
piafraus 2y ago
> you can't actually pedal this thing... sort of foundational to the concept "bicycle". Interesting. Just wondering - what does "pedal" mean to you. Explicitly spinning and explicitly with feets? Are any of those not considered bicycles to you? -Elliptical bicycle -Treadmill bicycle -Handcycle
- Loughla 2y ago
  The first two don't go anywhere and therefore aren't a problem. The third is just a variation of bicycle. What is your point here?
  - zamadatix 2y ago
    The first two are probably more literal than you're interpreting them at first glance. E.g. imagine taking a bike and putting a literal treadmill in it to replace the pedals/seat. It's a (niche) thing separate from a treadmill and definitely moves. In the end I think you're right but your conclusion "it's just a variation of a bike" really applies to all 3, hence "${thing} bicycle" instead of something like "electric suitcase".
  - lmm 2y ago
    > The first two don't go anywhere They're probably talking about e.g. an elliptigo, which does go somewhere. Although I can't imagine it ever making sense to motorise one.
- zamadatix 2y ago
  Whether a "treadmill bicycle" counts seems on the level as asking "if the impossible burger is a burger" or "if a hotdog is a sandwich" in terms of failure to gain any clarity by asking. On the literal sense every dictionary definition of "bicycle" is going to include some variation of "pedal driven". In the practical sense whatever functions enough like a bicycle is going to count, typically alluded to by being called a ${thing} bicycle, but "it moves on wheels and you go on it" isn't going to clear that bar on its own in this "electric suitcase".
- petsfed 2y ago

recursive 2y ago

I see a lot of scooters around here with vestigial compliance pedals, mostly driven by gig delivery drivers. The form factor looks more like a moped. No one would ever use those pedals. Clearly they're there to skirt some kind of regulation. I'm not sure what the fix is, but "able to pedaled" is kind of a ridiculous compromise.

throwaway22032 2y ago
In the UK the pedals are supposed to provide the assist. Handlebar mounted throttles are not allowed. None of this is enforced.
emchammer 2y ago
Vestigial pedals, LOL. Many deliveristas in NYC are seemingly competent riders. I noticed that an increasing number of them have bright red and blue blinking lights the exact color of police car emergency lights. That is distracting and bothers me more than a lot of their riding.
kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
NY state has three classes since 2020: pedal-assist only, pedals with independent hand throttle up to 20 MPH, pedals with independent hand throttle up to 25 MPH (NYC only, slower than standard class 3).
janstice 2y ago
In 60s/70s France 14 year olds could ride motorised bicycles, so Vespa sold a Pedalo - a regular (but lower-powered I think) Vespa scooter with pedals as well as 2-stroke engine - you had to put the engine in neutral to pedal (I bet not many 14 year olds did this).
- umeshunni 2y ago
  Isn't that what a moped is?
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    Whole terminology is pretty mixed up and messy. Moped is that, but then again speed limited scooters like Vespa without the pedals could also be moped. And so could speed and engine limited motorcycle of other style... In general I understand moped as anything with limited speed/engine size.
- codetrotter 2y ago
  Here’s a picture of that Vespa with pedals for anyone else interested in seeing it: https://www.museopiaggio.it/en/models/1-vespa/25-50-pedali-v5a1t https://www.museopiaggio.it/en/models/1-vespa/25-50-pedali-v...
petsfed 2y ago
So long as the pedals are hooked up to the drive train in such a way that they actually work, I don't actually have any complaint. If the user can easily switch to backup-pedal power to traverse e.g. Millenium Park in Chicago, then I don't really see the problem. Certainly, failure to use that function is a problem, but I don't think its good for society if we allow police to stop actual bicyclists on suspicion of riding a pedal assist vehicle. These things are pretty obvious when in use: bikes don't coast, unassisted, uphill at the speeds these things frequently achieve.

piafraus 2y ago

> you can't actually pedal this thing... sort of foundational to the concept "bicycle". Interesting. Just wondering - what does "pedal" mean to you. Explicitly spinning and explicitly with feets? Are any of those not considered bicycles to you? -Elliptical bicycle -Treadmill bicycle -Handcycle

Loughla 2y ago
The first two don't go anywhere and therefore aren't a problem. The third is just a variation of bicycle. What is your point here?
- zamadatix 2y ago
  The first two are probably more literal than you're interpreting them at first glance. E.g. imagine taking a bike and putting a literal treadmill in it to replace the pedals/seat. It's a (niche) thing separate from a treadmill and definitely moves. In the end I think you're right but your conclusion "it's just a variation of a bike" really applies to all 3, hence "${thing} bicycle" instead of something like "electric suitcase".
- lmm 2y ago
  > The first two don't go anywhere They're probably talking about e.g. an elliptigo, which does go somewhere. Although I can't imagine it ever making sense to motorise one.
zamadatix 2y ago
Whether a "treadmill bicycle" counts seems on the level as asking "if the impossible burger is a burger" or "if a hotdog is a sandwich" in terms of failure to gain any clarity by asking. On the literal sense every dictionary definition of "bicycle" is going to include some variation of "pedal driven". In the practical sense whatever functions enough like a bicycle is going to count, typically alluded to by being called a ${thing} bicycle, but "it moves on wheels and you go on it" isn't going to clear that bar on its own in this "electric suitcase".
petsfed 2y ago