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"yOu cAn cHaNgE sEtTinGs" I watched my computer reinstall edge, reinstall/hijack my drives with onedrive, re-add ads... But I left Windows for Fedora. I felt

"yOu cAn cHaNgE sEtTinGs" I watched my computer reinstall edge, reinstall/hijack my drives with onedrive, re-add ads... But I left Windows for Fedora. I felt offended that I didn't know about Fedora before. Like, there was some hatred toward Microsoft and Canonical for hiding a 10/10 OS. Angry at M$ for bribing schools. Angry at Canonical for free CD marketing that made crappy Debian-family the standard for 10+ years. Likely irrational. But Fedora has been an option and I didn't even know.

HKH2 2y ago
What makes Fedora better (apart from having more recent packages)?
- ocodo 2y ago
  bookmarked for the response.
- sqeaky 2y ago
  No snaps, better reliability during upgrades, more trustworthy devs. That was enough for me to switch some of my machines.
  - HKH2 2y ago
    I never upgrade Ubuntu straight away, because I don't want to deal with broken packages.
    - happymellon 2y ago
      Imagine a world where the distro tests its updates. You should check out Fedora.
  - fransje26 2y ago
    If someone is looking for a snap-less system, but will like to stay in the Debian/Ubuntu ecosystem, do give Linux Mint a look.
- ho_schi 2y ago
  Canonical is patching, more than Debian. Which is causing own specific bugs. Upstream developers don't like that. The attack through the xz package is just one last example. Fedora also patches but limit it to small changes e.g. transparency for the Gnome-Terminal. But Canonical is not just patching. Their launching counter-projects: * Mir instead of Wayland * Unity instead of GNOME * Upstart instead of Systemd (Upstart is older but just SysVInit with patches) * Snap instead of Flatpak Canonical always tries to push own stuff and harms the community. Usually Red Hat and the community oppose and win because: * they are better * and stronger What Canonical does well is shipping closed-source drivers (a thing which we don't want) and libraries for codes and their installer is neat. Fedora instead requires you the add RPMFUSION but delivers a clean GNOME, fast updates and don't try to ship weird stuff. I install Fedora for all regular systems which shall require little to no maintenance. Especially for non-technial users. For professional task and my very own system I prefer Arch. They only patch when it is necessary, usually upstream patches. If you want a terminal with background transparency there are packages with patches in AUR. The distribution should be the choice about installing and package-management, the software (i.e. GNU and Linux) shall be in general the same. It shall not matter "which" Linux you're using.
  - oliwarner 2y ago
    I agree that Canonical have definitely had a history that feels like Not Invented Here, but so what? That's the real glory of this system, that we can pick out parts and try to do something better. They've attracted a lot of ridicule from users, members, upstream, but it's their house, their engineering effort. Let's laud their attempt. Mir, Upstart, Bazaar, AppArmour were all projects that started at the same time as the eventual "winners". It's not wrong to experiment. Let's also not pretend that upstream always gets it right, or that they do things in concert with the wishes of their users (ffs Gnome).
beacon294 2y ago
You've had a lot of issues with debian family compared to fedora?
- happymellon 2y ago
  I have. Debian is either outdated or a beta distro depending on which route you go. For my servers that don't require bleeding edge packages it makes sense. However for my laptops, Debian is not a good fit.
  - beacon294 2y ago
    This is true for me, I can only use debian testing, unstable, or experimental. Is the grass greener on fedora?
    - happymellon 2y ago
      It is rebased every 6 months, and those applications that do not follow semantic versioning can get an exception so they get full updates, to avoid the xscreensaver situation that Debian had. https://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/04/i-would-like-debian-to-stop-shipping-xscreensaver/ https://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/04/i-would-like-debian-to-stop...
      - beacon294 2y ago
        Wow that author is really bitter. Custom URL redirect if your traffic comes from HN. Oh it's dna lounge person. I don't know anything else about how they behave, though.
        happymellon 2y ago
        Oh woops, I forgot about the HN redirect. Hopefully you were able to just paste the link and try again. Basically they had so much noise from Debian users who were running an old version of xscreensaver where the bugs were fixed 4-5 years ago, but Debian decided not to update it. I would be bitter if Debian treated me like that.
burningChrome 2y ago
>> I watched my computer reinstall edge, reinstall/hijack my drives with onedrive, re-add ads... But I left Windows for Fedora. Had something similar happen when I finally relented to all the constant pestering to upgrade to Win11. I did so reluctantly. Suddenly, I needed to link everything to my onedrive account. Oh, you have an MS365 account? We need that too to set up your onedrive. Oh, you should use teams, let me make Edge your default browser and connect all your accounts to your edge account. I didn't have any of this on Win10 and now it was just hijacking all my stuff, setting every MS program as the default and after I switched it, it would hijack them all back when I ran the updates. I purposefully keep all my stuff siloed for security reasons and here it was forcing them all together without my permission. The last time it reset Edge and Teams and forced me to use my MS365 for Teams, that was it. I uninstalled it and then installed MX Linux (Debian based) and have been much happier since. I still have a Win10 desktop and I'm not surrendering that until I absolutely have to now.

HKH2 2y ago

What makes Fedora better (apart from having more recent packages)?

ocodo 2y ago
bookmarked for the response.
sqeaky 2y ago
No snaps, better reliability during upgrades, more trustworthy devs. That was enough for me to switch some of my machines.
- HKH2 2y ago
  I never upgrade Ubuntu straight away, because I don't want to deal with broken packages.
  - happymellon 2y ago
    Imagine a world where the distro tests its updates. You should check out Fedora.
- fransje26 2y ago
  If someone is looking for a snap-less system, but will like to stay in the Debian/Ubuntu ecosystem, do give Linux Mint a look.
ho_schi 2y ago
Canonical is patching, more than Debian. Which is causing own specific bugs. Upstream developers don't like that. The attack through the xz package is just one last example. Fedora also patches but limit it to small changes e.g. transparency for the Gnome-Terminal. But Canonical is not just patching. Their launching counter-projects: * Mir instead of Wayland * Unity instead of GNOME * Upstart instead of Systemd (Upstart is older but just SysVInit with patches) * Snap instead of Flatpak Canonical always tries to push own stuff and harms the community. Usually Red Hat and the community oppose and win because: * they are better * and stronger What Canonical does well is shipping closed-source drivers (a thing which we don't want) and libraries for codes and their installer is neat. Fedora instead requires you the add RPMFUSION but delivers a clean GNOME, fast updates and don't try to ship weird stuff. I install Fedora for all regular systems which shall require little to no maintenance. Especially for non-technial users. For professional task and my very own system I prefer Arch. They only patch when it is necessary, usually upstream patches. If you want a terminal with background transparency there are packages with patches in AUR. The distribution should be the choice about installing and package-management, the software (i.e. GNU and Linux) shall be in general the same. It shall not matter "which" Linux you're using.
- oliwarner 2y ago
  I agree that Canonical have definitely had a history that feels like Not Invented Here, but so what? That's the real glory of this system, that we can pick out parts and try to do something better. They've attracted a lot of ridicule from users, members, upstream, but it's their house, their engineering effort. Let's laud their attempt. Mir, Upstart, Bazaar, AppArmour were all projects that started at the same time as the eventual "winners". It's not wrong to experiment. Let's also not pretend that upstream always gets it right, or that they do things in concert with the wishes of their users (ffs Gnome).

beacon294 2y ago

You've had a lot of issues with debian family compared to fedora?

happymellon 2y ago
I have. Debian is either outdated or a beta distro depending on which route you go. For my servers that don't require bleeding edge packages it makes sense. However for my laptops, Debian is not a good fit.
- beacon294 2y ago
  This is true for me, I can only use debian testing, unstable, or experimental. Is the grass greener on fedora?
  - happymellon 2y ago
    It is rebased every 6 months, and those applications that do not follow semantic versioning can get an exception so they get full updates, to avoid the xscreensaver situation that Debian had. https://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/04/i-would-like-debian-to-stop-shipping-xscreensaver/ https://www.jwz.org/blog/2016/04/i-would-like-debian-to-stop...
    - beacon294 2y ago
      Wow that author is really bitter. Custom URL redirect if your traffic comes from HN. Oh it's dna lounge person. I don't know anything else about how they behave, though.
      - happymellon 2y ago
        Oh woops, I forgot about the HN redirect. Hopefully you were able to just paste the link and try again. Basically they had so much noise from Debian users who were running an old version of xscreensaver where the bugs were fixed 4-5 years ago, but Debian decided not to update it. I would be bitter if Debian treated me like that.

burningChrome 2y ago

>> I watched my computer reinstall edge, reinstall/hijack my drives with onedrive, re-add ads... But I left Windows for Fedora. Had something similar happen when I finally relented to all the constant pestering to upgrade to Win11. I did so reluctantly. Suddenly, I needed to link everything to my onedrive account. Oh, you have an MS365 account? We need that too to set up your onedrive. Oh, you should use teams, let me make Edge your default browser and connect all your accounts to your edge account. I didn't have any of this on Win10 and now it was just hijacking all my stuff, setting every MS program as the default and after I switched it, it would hijack them all back when I ran the updates. I purposefully keep all my stuff siloed for security reasons and here it was forcing them all together without my permission. The last time it reset Edge and Teams and forced me to use my MS365 for Teams, that was it. I uninstalled it and then installed MX Linux (Debian based) and have been much happier since. I still have a Win10 desktop and I'm not surrendering that until I absolutely have to now.