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Protonvpn is protonmail. They're the same company. They choose to operate in a way that allows user IP's to be given for arbitrary political reasons. They will

Protonvpn is protonmail. They're the same company. They choose to operate in a way that allows user IP's to be given for arbitrary political reasons. They will do it with VPN too if they're "requested".

MrSkelter 2y ago
You appear to misunderstand the discussion. Under Swiss law Email is communication which is subject to a VPN which is not classified as a communications medium and subject to different laws. There is no way a legitimate company can insulate itself from legal compulsion. However a legitimate security company can do everything within the law to protect users. Proton does this and has been legally tested.
- devwastaken 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - netsharc 2y ago
    Dear Protonvpn, please listen to this guy, he knows everything! /s Either you operate within the boundaries of a country's laws, or you try to be lawless and hide. A VPN provider hiding from the law, gee, what basis do you have to trust them, if they can also lie and hide stuff from their users?
    - anonym29 2y ago
      Selectively disobeying laws that infringe upon user privacy is an act of civil disobedience, not evidence of broad willingness to disobey all laws, commit fraud, harm users, etc.
      - illiac786 2y ago
        Show me a company that successfully does this.
        anonym29 2y ago
        I am not asserting that such a company necessarily exists, though Lavabit comes to mind. I am simply responding to the assertion that any kind of legal noncompliance, including something as simple as refusing to compromise user privacy, necessarily renders a company untrustworthy, which was made in the parent comment: >A VPN provider hiding from the law, gee, what basis do you have to trust them, if they can also lie and hide stuff from their users?
        illiac786 2y ago
        the statement was that a company operating illegally is _less_ trustworthy than one operating legally. I think it is plausible, because if the company (through some wonder) picks and chooses which law it abides to, then it literally can scam anyone out of their life savings without any consequences… I mean, it’s all pros and cons: governements have some cons, but they also offer a framework which is protecting you to some extend from scams. If you decide to deal with a company operating outside the law, you can avoid the government spying/tracking (which, depending on the country you live in, may be vital) _but_, such companies cannot be sued or anything, so you have significantly less legal protections…
netsharc 2y ago
Their claim: they have to follow the Swiss laws, the laws for mail providers and the laws for VPN providers are separate, and one of them requires IP logging, and the other doesn't. Your claim: they're just doing whatever the hell they want, whatever is "politically" expedient for them. Without any substance behind it. Considering Switzerland's reputation as low-corruption country, i.e. having a government that follows the rules, I can imagine the VPN department will fight such a "request" as you say in their court of law, but hey, I bet your guts know it all.
ranger_danger 2y ago
Following the law is not arbitrary. Nobody is going to jail for you, your data is not that important. And there is literally no better country to do this in. Whatever you think Proton could be would be a company you shouldn't trust in the first place.

MrSkelter 2y ago

You appear to misunderstand the discussion. Under Swiss law Email is communication which is subject to a VPN which is not classified as a communications medium and subject to different laws. There is no way a legitimate company can insulate itself from legal compulsion. However a legitimate security company can do everything within the law to protect users. Proton does this and has been legally tested.

devwastaken 2y ago
[flagged]
- netsharc 2y ago
  Dear Protonvpn, please listen to this guy, he knows everything! /s Either you operate within the boundaries of a country's laws, or you try to be lawless and hide. A VPN provider hiding from the law, gee, what basis do you have to trust them, if they can also lie and hide stuff from their users?
  - anonym29 2y ago
    Selectively disobeying laws that infringe upon user privacy is an act of civil disobedience, not evidence of broad willingness to disobey all laws, commit fraud, harm users, etc.
    - illiac786 2y ago
      Show me a company that successfully does this.
      - anonym29 2y ago
        I am not asserting that such a company necessarily exists, though Lavabit comes to mind. I am simply responding to the assertion that any kind of legal noncompliance, including something as simple as refusing to compromise user privacy, necessarily renders a company untrustworthy, which was made in the parent comment: >A VPN provider hiding from the law, gee, what basis do you have to trust them, if they can also lie and hide stuff from their users?
        illiac786 2y ago
        the statement was that a company operating illegally is _less_ trustworthy than one operating legally. I think it is plausible, because if the company (through some wonder) picks and chooses which law it abides to, then it literally can scam anyone out of their life savings without any consequences… I mean, it’s all pros and cons: governements have some cons, but they also offer a framework which is protecting you to some extend from scams. If you decide to deal with a company operating outside the law, you can avoid the government spying/tracking (which, depending on the country you live in, may be vital) _but_, such companies cannot be sued or anything, so you have significantly less legal protections…

netsharc 2y ago

Their claim: they have to follow the Swiss laws, the laws for mail providers and the laws for VPN providers are separate, and one of them requires IP logging, and the other doesn't. Your claim: they're just doing whatever the hell they want, whatever is "politically" expedient for them. Without any substance behind it. Considering Switzerland's reputation as low-corruption country, i.e. having a government that follows the rules, I can imagine the VPN department will fight such a "request" as you say in their court of law, but hey, I bet your guts know it all.

ranger_danger 2y ago

Following the law is not arbitrary. Nobody is going to jail for you, your data is not that important. And there is literally no better country to do this in. Whatever you think Proton could be would be a company you shouldn't trust in the first place.