6 ms·

If I were sending a 60+ year old man to jail for what could potentially be the rest of his life, maybe I would cry to. A thing to keep in mind is that Mr. Gupta

by soupboy 14y ago

If I were sending a 60+ year old man to jail for what could potentially be the rest of his life, maybe I would cry to. A thing to keep in mind is that Mr. Gupta does not come of as an 'evil' person. He has done quite a lot of good in the world too and was and probably still is one of the sharpest minds in the corporate world. Obviously he lost all respect by doing this, but that doesn't mean one does not feel bad seeing a man's reputation and life so thoroughly destroyed by his own greed.

vecinu 14y ago
I think Mr. Gupta's family was also quite hurt by this verdict.
joering2 14y ago
Seriously now? You must be living in some sort of a comic book where people are only good or bad, never inbetween. Its a common thing for people doing evil to feel bad and doing good things to make themselves feel better. Vito Corleone was named "godfather" with a good reason. And following your thinking, one can cry for Adolph Hitler, because: - he overcame chaos in Germany, restored order and enormously raised production in all fields of national economy - he politically united the German nation - he rearmed it militarily - he tried to liquidate the Treaty - he have restored the Reich and the provinces grabbed from Germany in 1919 - he had led millions of deeply unhappy Germans back into the Fatherland .. and so on. Now, would you cry for him? edit: obviously looking back in time, he turned out to be a monster, but at some point he had over 90% approval in ratings.
- damoncali 14y ago
  There is a legitimate school of thought that says insider trading is not actually wrong, and should be legal. I don't subscribe to it myself, but "evil" is a very strong word, especially when followed by comparisons to genocidal dictators.
  - joering2 14y ago
    Well, I use "evil" as Bible describes it; that is all sins are equal, so is all evil-doing.
    - kstenerud 14y ago
      Yes, we should all do the same, and equate jaywalking with dictator-mass-murderers. That sounds logical.
- conanite 14y ago
  Wow - Godwin's Law, in reverse!
  - joering2 14y ago
    Thanks! I learnt something new today. Hadn't had any idea I tend to have a Godwin's syndrome... :)
- soupboy 14y ago
  Your argument is weird. The fact that people are not just good or bad but in between is exactly why I said the jurors felt bad giving this verdict. They saw Gupta as someone who has been close to good most of his life (he was at McKinsey for 40 years without a single blemish on his record!). And then you somehow invert the your own point and say that you should not feel sorry for Gupta because he is apparently evil like Hitler? And none of your points make me personally feel anything good about Hitler. Compare that with Gupta's life and tell me seriously if that is a fair comparison: - orphaned at 18 with very little money - studied hard and ranked 15th in the entire country and got admitted to IIT - Got an MBA from Harvard - Worked at McKinsey till 2011 making to the the post of Managing Director (the first MD of McKinsey from outside US) - [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajat_Gupta#Philanthropy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajat_Gupta#Philanthropy] See this Bloomberg article which pretty much says something similar - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-15/in-gupta-jurors-saw-american-dream-and-convicted-anyway.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-15/in-gupta-jurors-saw.... But I sense that we are different people, so arguing further with you will be moot.
  - joering2 14y ago
    Too bad you giving up on arguing so quick. Juror can say whatever they want to but the bottom line is is that when you in front of jury, they need to judge you based on your case merits, not whether you did or did not do something good or bad in your life. This is simple irrelevant to case in front of the judge. Check the case of Casey Anthony, for example. She has been giving sleeping pills to her daughter while partying carelessly in the town. She is a bad person and was terrible mother, but yet importunately there was not enough evidence to sentence her. The jury judged based on evidence presented, not because whether she was a good or bad person. And I believe its a fair system. Otherwise one could have a spat with another and become a priest, teach and help people for 50 years, then blew his opponent head and be found not guilty because he did so many good things in his life. It doesnt work like that. Whether he was orphan or not, studied to rank 15th or not is truly irrelevant. There is hundred million people throughout the modern world history in similar position than you never heard of (orphan, no parents, brilliant, good grades, etc). But the big different is that Gupta is a sentenced and convicted _criminal_ and they are not! Further, I cannot compare Gupta's life to Hitler's, because the latter is dead, and Gupta is "not done yet", so its like comparing apples to oranges. But let's play this game. If we would jump into Time Machine and went back in time before September 1939, having the same conversation you would be beaten down by 90% of voters that were with Hitler. I don't know about you, but surely I wouldn't like to stand against 90% of population of a country like Germany. Probably by the end of day number 2, arguing with 90% of population you would be hanging on the pole with hands tighten behind your back. But I agree what happened next, that's a different story. > But I sense that we are different people, so arguing further with you will be moot. We all not that different, my friend. We all had the same grand-grand-parents.
- soupboy 14y ago
  I saw your comment about the word "evil" and how you are using it after I wrote my reply to you. That all sins are equally evil is not something I believe.
  - joering2 14y ago
    that's OK; we all choose what we want to believe in. I go in accordance to the Bible's word. You don't have to.
    - bmelton 14y ago
      Agreed. If all evils are equal, then he should be rallying for the hangman's death of every jay-walker, traffic speeder or panhandler. By his argument, almost everybody in the world could die, and he'd be a-okay. I believe he is overstating his opinion. Further, Hitler DID do a lot of good things in his lifetime, they are just typically outweighed by the massive amounts of evil he did later. If he's unable to see that even bad people can do good things, good people can do bad things, and that most people are just 'somewhere' in the middle (hopefully) trying to do more good things than bad, then I believe it is he who doesn't understand the notion of 'shades of gray'.
    - grannyg00se 14y ago
      That's the first I've heard that "the Bible" states that all sins are equally evil. Which bible's word are you following? Depending on other possible statements, it seems very likely that you would end up in a position where the punishment for killing someone would have to be the same as the punishment for stealing a candy bar.
      - noahc 14y ago
        One way of viewing the bible is descriptive rather than prescriptive on this issue. For example, the bible says that all sin is equal, but not how to judge or punish that sin. That makes sense in the context of there only being one Judge.
- duaneb 14y ago
  Sure. If I were at Hitler's trial and I had witnessed some of Hitler's good aspects, I'm sure I would cry too.

by soupboy 14y ago

vecinu 14y ago

I think Mr. Gupta's family was also quite hurt by this verdict.

joering2 14y ago

Seriously now? You must be living in some sort of a comic book where people are only good or bad, never inbetween. Its a common thing for people doing evil to feel bad and doing good things to make themselves feel better. Vito Corleone was named "godfather" with a good reason. And following your thinking, one can cry for Adolph Hitler, because: - he overcame chaos in Germany, restored order and enormously raised production in all fields of national economy - he politically united the German nation - he rearmed it militarily - he tried to liquidate the Treaty - he have restored the Reich and the provinces grabbed from Germany in 1919 - he had led millions of deeply unhappy Germans back into the Fatherland .. and so on. Now, would you cry for him? edit: obviously looking back in time, he turned out to be a monster, but at some point he had over 90% approval in ratings.

damoncali 14y ago
There is a legitimate school of thought that says insider trading is not actually wrong, and should be legal. I don't subscribe to it myself, but "evil" is a very strong word, especially when followed by comparisons to genocidal dictators.
- joering2 14y ago
  Well, I use "evil" as Bible describes it; that is all sins are equal, so is all evil-doing.
  - kstenerud 14y ago
    Yes, we should all do the same, and equate jaywalking with dictator-mass-murderers. That sounds logical.
conanite 14y ago
Wow - Godwin's Law, in reverse!
- joering2 14y ago
  Thanks! I learnt something new today. Hadn't had any idea I tend to have a Godwin's syndrome... :)
soupboy 14y ago
Your argument is weird. The fact that people are not just good or bad but in between is exactly why I said the jurors felt bad giving this verdict. They saw Gupta as someone who has been close to good most of his life (he was at McKinsey for 40 years without a single blemish on his record!). And then you somehow invert the your own point and say that you should not feel sorry for Gupta because he is apparently evil like Hitler? And none of your points make me personally feel anything good about Hitler. Compare that with Gupta's life and tell me seriously if that is a fair comparison: - orphaned at 18 with very little money - studied hard and ranked 15th in the entire country and got admitted to IIT - Got an MBA from Harvard - Worked at McKinsey till 2011 making to the the post of Managing Director (the first MD of McKinsey from outside US) - [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajat_Gupta#Philanthropy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajat_Gupta#Philanthropy] See this Bloomberg article which pretty much says something similar - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-15/in-gupta-jurors-saw-american-dream-and-convicted-anyway.html http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-15/in-gupta-jurors-saw.... But I sense that we are different people, so arguing further with you will be moot.
- joering2 14y ago
  Too bad you giving up on arguing so quick. Juror can say whatever they want to but the bottom line is is that when you in front of jury, they need to judge you based on your case merits, not whether you did or did not do something good or bad in your life. This is simple irrelevant to case in front of the judge. Check the case of Casey Anthony, for example. She has been giving sleeping pills to her daughter while partying carelessly in the town. She is a bad person and was terrible mother, but yet importunately there was not enough evidence to sentence her. The jury judged based on evidence presented, not because whether she was a good or bad person. And I believe its a fair system. Otherwise one could have a spat with another and become a priest, teach and help people for 50 years, then blew his opponent head and be found not guilty because he did so many good things in his life. It doesnt work like that. Whether he was orphan or not, studied to rank 15th or not is truly irrelevant. There is hundred million people throughout the modern world history in similar position than you never heard of (orphan, no parents, brilliant, good grades, etc). But the big different is that Gupta is a sentenced and convicted _criminal_ and they are not! Further, I cannot compare Gupta's life to Hitler's, because the latter is dead, and Gupta is "not done yet", so its like comparing apples to oranges. But let's play this game. If we would jump into Time Machine and went back in time before September 1939, having the same conversation you would be beaten down by 90% of voters that were with Hitler. I don't know about you, but surely I wouldn't like to stand against 90% of population of a country like Germany. Probably by the end of day number 2, arguing with 90% of population you would be hanging on the pole with hands tighten behind your back. But I agree what happened next, that's a different story. > But I sense that we are different people, so arguing further with you will be moot. We all not that different, my friend. We all had the same grand-grand-parents.
soupboy 14y ago
I saw your comment about the word "evil" and how you are using it after I wrote my reply to you. That all sins are equally evil is not something I believe.
- joering2 14y ago
  that's OK; we all choose what we want to believe in. I go in accordance to the Bible's word. You don't have to.
  - bmelton 14y ago
    Agreed. If all evils are equal, then he should be rallying for the hangman's death of every jay-walker, traffic speeder or panhandler. By his argument, almost everybody in the world could die, and he'd be a-okay. I believe he is overstating his opinion. Further, Hitler DID do a lot of good things in his lifetime, they are just typically outweighed by the massive amounts of evil he did later. If he's unable to see that even bad people can do good things, good people can do bad things, and that most people are just 'somewhere' in the middle (hopefully) trying to do more good things than bad, then I believe it is he who doesn't understand the notion of 'shades of gray'.
  - grannyg00se 14y ago
    That's the first I've heard that "the Bible" states that all sins are equally evil. Which bible's word are you following? Depending on other possible statements, it seems very likely that you would end up in a position where the punishment for killing someone would have to be the same as the punishment for stealing a candy bar.
    - noahc 14y ago
      One way of viewing the bible is descriptive rather than prescriptive on this issue. For example, the bible says that all sin is equal, but not how to judge or punish that sin. That makes sense in the context of there only being one Judge.
duaneb 14y ago
Sure. If I were at Hitler's trial and I had witnessed some of Hitler's good aspects, I'm sure I would cry too.