4 ms·

I applied for summer 24, and got a less-than-thoughtful response bordering on personally insulting (“TL;DR - why don’t you go back to your day job?”). I won’t b

by ppqqrr 2y ago

I applied for summer 24, and got a less-than-thoughtful response bordering on personally insulting (“TL;DR - why don’t you go back to your day job?”). I won’t be applying anymore. Funny thing is, I didn’t even want to hear back - I just like to fill out the application as a writing exercise, to help me get a snapshot of my own thinking around what I’m building. I guess it’s stressful reading all those applications, but why respond if all you have to say is “I don’t believe you”? Silence will do just fine; I’m aware that people don’t believe me - it’s called a startup, right? (Anyways, nbd, apologies for the tangential rant, love the website)

carlosdp 2y ago
> got a less-than-thoughtful response bordering on personally insulting > I didn’t even want to hear back - I just like to fill out the application as a writing exercise You admittedly wasted their time with an unserious application "as a writing exercise," and you're upset because they actually took it seriously and took the time to properly respond to it with honesty instead of giving you a cookie-cutter rejection?
- bartekpacia 2y ago
  > You admittedly wasted their time with an unserious application "as a writing exercise That’s not what he said.
- ppqqrr 2y ago
  Just because I had little expectation of hearing back doesn’t mean my application was unserious. It was a full length application, written over multiple days, about the future direction of my business, which already has revenue. The response was about 2 sentences long.
  - iJohnDoe 2y ago
    > about the future direction of my business, which already has revenue. Then maybe their response was spot on. You’re already making revenue. Get back to it. Maybe you’re making it loud and clear you’re not a good fit for the program.
    - awesomeMilou 2y ago
      YC does invest in companies that already have revenue but seek additional growth, no?
mjamil 2y ago
I appreciate your perspective, but I thoroughly disagree. Silence is always the worst response: it signals that you aren't even worth the courtesy to be responded to. I'll take a borderline-personally-insulting response over silence any day of the week. That gives me the ability to analyze the responder's thinking (after I'm over the hit to my ego) and see whether I believe the responder has a point or not.
- reducesuffering 2y ago
  I agree. I've only heard silence applying twice. Yet all the YC messaging is "apply again!" I'm curious if they ever consider the people who have heard nothing from them for a decade, when they talk about why you should apply.
neilv 2y ago
A few questions, intended constructively: > I didn’t even want to hear back - I just like to fill out the application as a writing exercise, to help me get a snapshot of my own thinking around what I’m building. When someone submits an application to YC, asking to be considered, do you think it's reasonable for YC to expect that submission to be in good faith -- that the person would like to pursue next steps if YC is interested? Do you think they sensed that your application wasn't a genuine application, and that affected their response? > got a less-than-thoughtful response bordering on personally insulting (“TL;DR - why don’t you go back to your day job?”) Is that a literal quote of something someone responded to you, or is it an interpretation of the gist of the response?
tptacek 2y ago
A direct, blunt "no" is the second-best possible response you can get from an investor, and a rare one.
- thruway516 2y ago
  This. Most times its no response or a form letter. Any type of warm blooded response is a valuable signal, even if it's not one you like.
  - dpifke 2y ago
    I put a lot of effort into a YC application in 2019 and got a generic form letter rejection. If I had gotten any indication anyone had actually looked at it, I might consider applying again, but as it stands, I probably won't.
    - sroussey 2y ago
      They all get read and watched. Full stop. Maybe YC will use an llm to write nice letters to make people feel better. Couldn’t hurt. Well, actually… might need proofreading!
paxys 2y ago
So you are complaining that you filled out an application and they didn't ghost you? And actually offered some meaningful advice even though you were rejected?
dang 2y ago
That sounds so unlike the YC partners I know that I have to wonder whether you correctly interpreted the response. The fact that you got a specific message indicates that someone at YC saw potential in your application and was hoping to help you improve it. The subtext of those messages is "help us get to yes". In my experience they would never say things like "why don't you go back to your day job" or "I don't believe you" or anything in that ballpark. That's just not the culture of how YC treats founders—quite the opposite. Besides that, insulting applicants would obviously go against YC's own interests.
- ppqqrr 2y ago
  > That sounds so unlike the YC partners I appreciate the insider perspective; my faith in YC was exactly why I was so dumbfounded. Me and my cofounder spent quite a bit of time speculating, and wrote a substantial, thoughtful response. Ignored and rejected. I wanna make clear again that I’m not bitter about this, it was just odd. And counterproductive.
arp242 2y ago
> I just like to fill out the application as a writing exercise, to help me get a snapshot of my own thinking around what I’m building. I think that's quite rude and disrespectful in itself. People do actually need to read that, and think about it, and then maybe provide feedback on it. Of course applying conveys no obligation to follow through and you can always change your mind, but if you never intend to do so, then you shouldn't be applying.
ghufran_syed 2y ago
how about actually quoting the email instead of summarizing? if the advice was unhelpful, or rude (as you seem to be implying), why not let the rest of judge for ourselves? And maintaining a “day job” is not a mark of shame or an insult, it’s a way of maintaining low burn rate at the expense of less time to work on the startup. Whether thats the optimal scenario depends on where you are in terms of solving the problem that you’re working on, but adding yc/vc money does not magically help you find product-market fit, it just gives your more time each week to work on it. But unless what you’re doing seems to be getting you closer to that point, why not work on it and hone your process while keeping the day job?

by ppqqrr 2y ago

carlosdp 2y ago

> got a less-than-thoughtful response bordering on personally insulting > I didn’t even want to hear back - I just like to fill out the application as a writing exercise You admittedly wasted their time with an unserious application "as a writing exercise," and you're upset because they actually took it seriously and took the time to properly respond to it with honesty instead of giving you a cookie-cutter rejection?

bartekpacia 2y ago
> You admittedly wasted their time with an unserious application "as a writing exercise That’s not what he said.
ppqqrr 2y ago
Just because I had little expectation of hearing back doesn’t mean my application was unserious. It was a full length application, written over multiple days, about the future direction of my business, which already has revenue. The response was about 2 sentences long.
- iJohnDoe 2y ago
  > about the future direction of my business, which already has revenue. Then maybe their response was spot on. You’re already making revenue. Get back to it. Maybe you’re making it loud and clear you’re not a good fit for the program.
  - awesomeMilou 2y ago
    YC does invest in companies that already have revenue but seek additional growth, no?

mjamil 2y ago

I appreciate your perspective, but I thoroughly disagree. Silence is always the worst response: it signals that you aren't even worth the courtesy to be responded to. I'll take a borderline-personally-insulting response over silence any day of the week. That gives me the ability to analyze the responder's thinking (after I'm over the hit to my ego) and see whether I believe the responder has a point or not.

reducesuffering 2y ago
I agree. I've only heard silence applying twice. Yet all the YC messaging is "apply again!" I'm curious if they ever consider the people who have heard nothing from them for a decade, when they talk about why you should apply.

neilv 2y ago

A few questions, intended constructively: > I didn’t even want to hear back - I just like to fill out the application as a writing exercise, to help me get a snapshot of my own thinking around what I’m building. When someone submits an application to YC, asking to be considered, do you think it's reasonable for YC to expect that submission to be in good faith -- that the person would like to pursue next steps if YC is interested? Do you think they sensed that your application wasn't a genuine application, and that affected their response? > got a less-than-thoughtful response bordering on personally insulting (“TL;DR - why don’t you go back to your day job?”) Is that a literal quote of something someone responded to you, or is it an interpretation of the gist of the response?

tptacek 2y ago

A direct, blunt "no" is the second-best possible response you can get from an investor, and a rare one.

thruway516 2y ago
This. Most times its no response or a form letter. Any type of warm blooded response is a valuable signal, even if it's not one you like.
- dpifke 2y ago
  I put a lot of effort into a YC application in 2019 and got a generic form letter rejection. If I had gotten any indication anyone had actually looked at it, I might consider applying again, but as it stands, I probably won't.
  - sroussey 2y ago
    They all get read and watched. Full stop. Maybe YC will use an llm to write nice letters to make people feel better. Couldn’t hurt. Well, actually… might need proofreading!

paxys 2y ago

So you are complaining that you filled out an application and they didn't ghost you? And actually offered some meaningful advice even though you were rejected?

dang 2y ago

That sounds so unlike the YC partners I know that I have to wonder whether you correctly interpreted the response. The fact that you got a specific message indicates that someone at YC saw potential in your application and was hoping to help you improve it. The subtext of those messages is "help us get to yes". In my experience they would never say things like "why don't you go back to your day job" or "I don't believe you" or anything in that ballpark. That's just not the culture of how YC treats founders—quite the opposite. Besides that, insulting applicants would obviously go against YC's own interests.

ppqqrr 2y ago
> That sounds so unlike the YC partners I appreciate the insider perspective; my faith in YC was exactly why I was so dumbfounded. Me and my cofounder spent quite a bit of time speculating, and wrote a substantial, thoughtful response. Ignored and rejected. I wanna make clear again that I’m not bitter about this, it was just odd. And counterproductive.

arp242 2y ago

> I just like to fill out the application as a writing exercise, to help me get a snapshot of my own thinking around what I’m building. I think that's quite rude and disrespectful in itself. People do actually need to read that, and think about it, and then maybe provide feedback on it. Of course applying conveys no obligation to follow through and you can always change your mind, but if you never intend to do so, then you shouldn't be applying.

ghufran_syed 2y ago

how about actually quoting the email instead of summarizing? if the advice was unhelpful, or rude (as you seem to be implying), why not let the rest of judge for ourselves? And maintaining a “day job” is not a mark of shame or an insult, it’s a way of maintaining low burn rate at the expense of less time to work on the startup. Whether thats the optimal scenario depends on where you are in terms of solving the problem that you’re working on, but adding yc/vc money does not magically help you find product-market fit, it just gives your more time each week to work on it. But unless what you’re doing seems to be getting you closer to that point, why not work on it and hone your process while keeping the day job?