4 ms·

I always wondered, is YC worth the try? Are there any hidden details that are usually not mentioned? I hope to get answers from individuals who went through the

I always wondered, is YC worth the try? Are there any hidden details that are usually not mentioned? I hope to get answers from individuals who went through the process.

n2d4 2y ago
Going through it for my second time now, it's definitely worth it. There's an excess of smart people and it's transformational for any startup, but especially if you build in devtools like us. The network is strong and supportive and there's a strong connection even among people who never met; for example, lots of unicorn+ founders have their personal phone numbers on their profiles. The strongest argument for YC is how few alums speak out against it. Almost all of the negative comments come from people who haven't done the program.
- neilv 2y ago
  > The strongest argument for YC is how few alums speak out against it. Almost all of the negative comments come from people who haven't done the program. I think YC has merit, but I'm just going to push back on this particular logic: 1. The set of people who've done X is already selected for people who were willing to do X in the first place. 2. In business, burning bridges with an influential network in which you have an in... forfeits some advantage, and probably invites a lot of downside. (On #2, an occasional person might decide it's a matter of principle, or, less-principled, do the math and decide they can get more individual brand mileage out of saying something provocatively negative. But that seems unlikely and rare. Related dynamics we've seen might help our intuition: how Hollywood almost universally shielded abusers for so long, and how it's very rare for a student wronged by a prestigious alma mater university to go public about it.) So I think there are stronger arguments for YC.
  - n2d4 2y ago
    Maybe that applies to people going to Gawker or whatever and writing an exposé on YC, but that's not what I'm talking about. There are very few people who, at the end of the batch in a private one-on-one conversation, say that joining YC was a mistake. That certainly wouldn't risk their career (neither would critiquing YC on HN, for that matter). Claiming that all human opinions are fake and based on self-interest is a very cynical view. Besides you could apply the same logic to big tech companies, or elite universities, or whatever, but there are plenty of Xooglers who say the company went to shit, or Harvard grads who say they regret the student debt.
- breck 2y ago
  > The strongest argument for YC is how few alums speak out against it. Are you sure this is the case? Might it be that alums who speak out against YC suffer repercussions? I praise 90% of what YC does. But I also call them out on their mistakes. https://x.com/garrytan https://x.com/garrytan blocks me, which is, I'm sad to report, the smallest of the repercussions they've taken against me. I love YC, but they need to grow some thicker skin and quit hiding in their Silicon Valley bubble.
  - breck 2y ago
    Here is a perfect example: a nice helpful post, with highly constructive feedback, but is mildly critical of YC gets [flagged] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41180917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41180917 YC = YCensornator. Don't give me the B.S. about "HN != YC". We all know that's mostly untrue.
    - meiraleal 2y ago
      If this is the worse you could find, I think the censorship in the search engine is big /s looking at you, Algolia!
tptacek 2y ago
If you're planning to do a business for the first time that will raise money, it's probably a no-brainer.
- foldr 2y ago
  Excuse the pedantry, but there seems to be a missing qualification on what kind of business it is. Almost all of the world’s businesses raise starting capital without help from YC.
ant6n 2y ago
I feel like they may use like soft red flags, and don’t consider you if you have more than one. Perhaps things like solo founder (even with team), not based in US, not working on currently hot topic, something involving physical assets/hardware? I’m not sure, it’s a feeling I got after I tried applying. Their rejection response was quite short.
- hobobaggins 2y ago
  Well, that would make sense, wouldn't it?
- tamimio 2y ago
  > something involving physical assets/hardware? Very interesting. So unless it’s purely software and the $current bandwagon, then it’s out? Better not to try then. As an engineer, all my ideas involve hardware and robotics too. Sure, software is there, but it’s definitely not the only thing.
  - ant6n 2y ago
    Well, I'd say you're allowed one strike, but not multiple.
pclmulqdq 2y ago
My suggestions: 1. If you sell dev tools or sell to startups, YC gives you a great captive market in your peer group. They are also highly motivated to make "you scratch my back, I scratch yours deals." 2. If you have no connections to VC or a spotty resume, but your team is highly motivated, YC gives you those connections and overcomes the resume. 3. If you don't care that much about your success in this particular company but want to be a serial founder, being ex-YC is good. 4. If you are not self-motivated, it may be your only hope of developing the habits you need. Otherwise, ~10% for $500k is probably a bad deal, especially for an AI company or a company with any traction at all. Applied late once to YC with an idea (not a great one) and got rejected, probably because of solo founding.
- dbbk 2y ago
  > Otherwise, ~10% for $500k is probably a bad deal For most likely a pre-seed company surely it's pretty good?
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    Carta puts out good data on this: https://carta.com/blog/state-of-pre-seed-q1-2024/ https://carta.com/blog/state-of-pre-seed-q1-2024/
- tamimio 2y ago
  Thank you for the suggestions! > Otherwise, ~10% for $500k is probably a bad deal, especially for an AI company or a company with any traction at all. So it seems.
breck 2y ago
> Are there any hidden details that are usually not mentioned? Yes. In general there are hidden details but what those specifically are, I can't tell you. I can speak freely since I was expelled from YC. # Background I did YC twice, in 2008 and 2009. YC invested ~$15,000 in both startups. I don't keep a close eye on it, but I think nowadays they give you 33.3333x as much money. My first startup we shut down. I didn't know what I was doing. My co-founder was smarter and went on to do multiple successful companies, I think a couple funded by YC. My second company got acqui-hired by Microsoft in 2014. YC got $0 since it was only 3 people and YC was our only investor and it wasn't worth it to do a stock acquisition, especially since the Seahawks had just won the Superbowl and the Microsoft Biz Dev folks were in a good mood. I felt relieved I could at least "pay back" YC, but PG was aghast when I emailed him that: "You don't have to pay back YC. I'd be horrified if I thought you were even thinking about that. We expect to lose money on most of our investments. The small number of big hits compensate-- more than compensate. So don't worry about us at all. Just go work on interesting things. Good luck, --pg" Ignore how he dresses, the guy is a class act. # As to the Hidden Details There's a lot of secrets with YC. Back in the early days when I was just one of the first HackerNews users, I logged into the site and saw I had "One New Message". WTF? HN did not have a messaging system. Or so I thought. In fact, HN had a secret messaging system that PG used to communicate with promising hackers. From that point on I was a guest in YC's secret hotel, but never got invited up to the Penthouse. YC has a lot of hidden tools. I am now on the shittier version of HackerNews that the public has access to (since I got expelled). There's a cooler version with extra features that you get access to if you're in the club. YC has secret ratings and reviews of all investors worldwide; a huge thing called "Bookface" with all sorts of helpful tools for startups, etc. They don't really share anything about their returns. They are not like Warren Buffet, who writes a detailed letter explaining the returns each year. Knowledge is compartmentalized a lot of knowledge between partners, batches, LPs, favorite startups, et cetera. Now, there are legitimate reasons for doing this. First, it's obviously a huge competitive advantage, and IMO these tools and this information is likely worth far more than the $500K they give your startup. Second, YC/their portfolio is _constantly_ under attack from forces all over the world. That's what happens when you are the GOAT and fund so many Unicorns. People all over the world come after you and your portfolio companies. Tom Brady is a hero in Boston and Tampa but the most vile villain in 94% of cities with NFL teams. You get paid the big bucks not to enjoy the love, but to endure the hate. Anyway, so what specifically are the hidden details? I don't know. Like I said I was never invited up to the Penthouse. But I do know they are more than comfortable to keep secrets. Secrecy does not seem to bother them. Don't take my word for it. Here's JL: "Some of the most useful things I've learned about startups over the years are also things I'd never share publicly." [0] If they are holding back "the most useful things", what are they giving us? Why should we trust them? [0] https://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/the-sound-of-silence https://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/the-sound-of-silence P.S. I love YC and highly recommend it. I give them sht because I've always given them sht, because I always want them to be improving.

I always wondered, is YC worth the try? Are there any hidden details that are usually not mentioned? I hope to get answers from individuals who went through the process.

n2d4 2y ago

Going through it for my second time now, it's definitely worth it. There's an excess of smart people and it's transformational for any startup, but especially if you build in devtools like us. The network is strong and supportive and there's a strong connection even among people who never met; for example, lots of unicorn+ founders have their personal phone numbers on their profiles. The strongest argument for YC is how few alums speak out against it. Almost all of the negative comments come from people who haven't done the program.

neilv 2y ago
> The strongest argument for YC is how few alums speak out against it. Almost all of the negative comments come from people who haven't done the program. I think YC has merit, but I'm just going to push back on this particular logic: 1. The set of people who've done X is already selected for people who were willing to do X in the first place. 2. In business, burning bridges with an influential network in which you have an in... forfeits some advantage, and probably invites a lot of downside. (On #2, an occasional person might decide it's a matter of principle, or, less-principled, do the math and decide they can get more individual brand mileage out of saying something provocatively negative. But that seems unlikely and rare. Related dynamics we've seen might help our intuition: how Hollywood almost universally shielded abusers for so long, and how it's very rare for a student wronged by a prestigious alma mater university to go public about it.) So I think there are stronger arguments for YC.
- n2d4 2y ago
  Maybe that applies to people going to Gawker or whatever and writing an exposé on YC, but that's not what I'm talking about. There are very few people who, at the end of the batch in a private one-on-one conversation, say that joining YC was a mistake. That certainly wouldn't risk their career (neither would critiquing YC on HN, for that matter). Claiming that all human opinions are fake and based on self-interest is a very cynical view. Besides you could apply the same logic to big tech companies, or elite universities, or whatever, but there are plenty of Xooglers who say the company went to shit, or Harvard grads who say they regret the student debt.
breck 2y ago
> The strongest argument for YC is how few alums speak out against it. Are you sure this is the case? Might it be that alums who speak out against YC suffer repercussions? I praise 90% of what YC does. But I also call them out on their mistakes. https://x.com/garrytan https://x.com/garrytan blocks me, which is, I'm sad to report, the smallest of the repercussions they've taken against me. I love YC, but they need to grow some thicker skin and quit hiding in their Silicon Valley bubble.
- breck 2y ago
  Here is a perfect example: a nice helpful post, with highly constructive feedback, but is mildly critical of YC gets [flagged] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41180917 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41180917 YC = YCensornator. Don't give me the B.S. about "HN != YC". We all know that's mostly untrue.
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    If this is the worse you could find, I think the censorship in the search engine is big /s looking at you, Algolia!

tptacek 2y ago

If you're planning to do a business for the first time that will raise money, it's probably a no-brainer.

foldr 2y ago
Excuse the pedantry, but there seems to be a missing qualification on what kind of business it is. Almost all of the world’s businesses raise starting capital without help from YC.

ant6n 2y ago

I feel like they may use like soft red flags, and don’t consider you if you have more than one. Perhaps things like solo founder (even with team), not based in US, not working on currently hot topic, something involving physical assets/hardware? I’m not sure, it’s a feeling I got after I tried applying. Their rejection response was quite short.

hobobaggins 2y ago
Well, that would make sense, wouldn't it?
tamimio 2y ago
> something involving physical assets/hardware? Very interesting. So unless it’s purely software and the $current bandwagon, then it’s out? Better not to try then. As an engineer, all my ideas involve hardware and robotics too. Sure, software is there, but it’s definitely not the only thing.
- ant6n 2y ago
  Well, I'd say you're allowed one strike, but not multiple.

pclmulqdq 2y ago

My suggestions: 1. If you sell dev tools or sell to startups, YC gives you a great captive market in your peer group. They are also highly motivated to make "you scratch my back, I scratch yours deals." 2. If you have no connections to VC or a spotty resume, but your team is highly motivated, YC gives you those connections and overcomes the resume. 3. If you don't care that much about your success in this particular company but want to be a serial founder, being ex-YC is good. 4. If you are not self-motivated, it may be your only hope of developing the habits you need. Otherwise, ~10% for $500k is probably a bad deal, especially for an AI company or a company with any traction at all. Applied late once to YC with an idea (not a great one) and got rejected, probably because of solo founding.

dbbk 2y ago
> Otherwise, ~10% for $500k is probably a bad deal For most likely a pre-seed company surely it's pretty good?
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  Carta puts out good data on this: https://carta.com/blog/state-of-pre-seed-q1-2024/ https://carta.com/blog/state-of-pre-seed-q1-2024/
tamimio 2y ago
Thank you for the suggestions! > Otherwise, ~10% for $500k is probably a bad deal, especially for an AI company or a company with any traction at all. So it seems.

breck 2y ago

> Are there any hidden details that are usually not mentioned? Yes. In general there are hidden details but what those specifically are, I can't tell you. I can speak freely since I was expelled from YC. # Background I did YC twice, in 2008 and 2009. YC invested ~$15,000 in both startups. I don't keep a close eye on it, but I think nowadays they give you 33.3333x as much money. My first startup we shut down. I didn't know what I was doing. My co-founder was smarter and went on to do multiple successful companies, I think a couple funded by YC. My second company got acqui-hired by Microsoft in 2014. YC got $0 since it was only 3 people and YC was our only investor and it wasn't worth it to do a stock acquisition, especially since the Seahawks had just won the Superbowl and the Microsoft Biz Dev folks were in a good mood. I felt relieved I could at least "pay back" YC, but PG was aghast when I emailed him that: "You don't have to pay back YC. I'd be horrified if I thought you were even thinking about that. We expect to lose money on most of our investments. The small number of big hits compensate-- more than compensate. So don't worry about us at all. Just go work on interesting things. Good luck, --pg" Ignore how he dresses, the guy is a class act. # As to the Hidden Details There's a lot of secrets with YC. Back in the early days when I was just one of the first HackerNews users, I logged into the site and saw I had "One New Message". WTF? HN did not have a messaging system. Or so I thought. In fact, HN had a secret messaging system that PG used to communicate with promising hackers. From that point on I was a guest in YC's secret hotel, but never got invited up to the Penthouse. YC has a lot of hidden tools. I am now on the shittier version of HackerNews that the public has access to (since I got expelled). There's a cooler version with extra features that you get access to if you're in the club. YC has secret ratings and reviews of all investors worldwide; a huge thing called "Bookface" with all sorts of helpful tools for startups, etc. They don't really share anything about their returns. They are not like Warren Buffet, who writes a detailed letter explaining the returns each year. Knowledge is compartmentalized a lot of knowledge between partners, batches, LPs, favorite startups, et cetera. Now, there are legitimate reasons for doing this. First, it's obviously a huge competitive advantage, and IMO these tools and this information is likely worth far more than the $500K they give your startup. Second, YC/their portfolio is _constantly_ under attack from forces all over the world. That's what happens when you are the GOAT and fund so many Unicorns. People all over the world come after you and your portfolio companies. Tom Brady is a hero in Boston and Tampa but the most vile villain in 94% of cities with NFL teams. You get paid the big bucks not to enjoy the love, but to endure the hate. Anyway, so what specifically are the hidden details? I don't know. Like I said I was never invited up to the Penthouse. But I do know they are more than comfortable to keep secrets. Secrecy does not seem to bother them. Don't take my word for it. Here's JL: "Some of the most useful things I've learned about startups over the years are also things I'd never share publicly." [0] If they are holding back "the most useful things", what are they giving us? Why should we trust them? [0] https://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/the-sound-of-silence https://foundersatwork.posthaven.com/the-sound-of-silence P.S. I love YC and highly recommend it. I give them sht because I've always given them sht, because I always want them to be improving.