5 ms·

Scotland and Ireland are intimately linked by a common language (Gaelic). As an Irish person who speaks English (for obvious historical reasons), visiting Scot

Scotland and Ireland are intimately linked by a common language (Gaelic). As an Irish person who speaks English (for obvious historical reasons), visiting Scotland blew my mind because of the common language. Here’s an example of a simple stone house from the south west of Ireland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloch%C3%A1n https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloch%C3%A1n Note that these are some houses from Skellig Michael, used as a film location for one of the Star Wars movies Edit: typo

arethuza 2y ago
What became Scotland pretty much originated with the kingdom of Dál Riata that stretched between Ireland and Britain and there are a lot of legends and myths that tell of strong connections between the two e.g. Deirdre of the Sorrows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deirdre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deirdre
- amiga386 2y ago
  "Pretty much" is doing a lot of work there. The kingdom of Dál Riata was predominantly the islands and the west coast of modern Scotland. Picts held the north, east and central parts of modern Scotland, the Britons of Strathclyde ruled the south-west and the Anglo-Saxons of Bernicia (later joining with Deira to form Northumbria) the south-east. There were many other tribes, this is a gross simplification. Ultimately the Picts and Celts/Scots of Dál Riata "merged" (if that's the right word? it's not clear who took over who) in the 700s-800s, for certain by the time of Kenneth MacAlpin who was both King of Dál Riata and King of the Picts, and by the 900s this was the Kingdom of Alba, later the Kingdom of Scotland. This Kingdom still did not include what's in modern south-west Scotland, that was won later.
  - mbreese 2y ago
    FWIW, the British History Podcast does a pretty good job of covering Scotland and the migration of people through this period. I actually don’t know how good it is, but I do at least remember all of the names and places you mentioned. :) The podcast is quite England heavy, but does also cover Scotland and Wales, as well as the relevant parts of France, Ireland, and Denmark (as appropriate).
m-i-l 2y ago
> Scotland and Ireland are intimately linked by a common language (Gaelic) Just on parts of the west coast of Scotland - much of mainland Scotland spoke the Scots language, with the (now dead) Norn language spoken in the northern areas (with Norse heritage), and other languages in the border areas. The promotion of Scottish Gaelic as a "national language" is very much modern-day myth-building.
- nmeofthestate 2y ago
  It depends how far back you go. Gaelic was spoken across the country, not just on the west coast. Nowadays it's been more or less eradicated, except from the Western Isles (where it's not that widely spoken - English is the main spoken language). And it's increasingly become a political football so you see untrue statements made about its history.
  - Affric 2y ago
    Do you have a source for Gaelic being spoken in places like Berwickshire? My understanding from School of was that it went straight from the Brythonic to the Germanic.
- netcan 2y ago
  Scots is an English dialect, descended from Northumbrian English. The dialect is arguably alive in some locales, including some places northern Ireland. To me, the dividing line is code switch. There are rural pubs and such where people will noticeably switch to standard English when speaking to non-locals. Ulster Scots, it is sometimes called. Hard to draw distinct lines, especially since the "standard" English near Scots speaking locales is not very standard. Glasgow, Newry and whatnot have pretty quirky "standard" English. That said, an average person from Newry won't code switch. If you can't understand the accent, they'll just speak loader, slower and more directly at your forehead. To me that makes it "not a dialect."
  - arethuza 2y ago
    I'm originally from a small fishing village in north-east Scotland and used to speak a very broad dialect called Doric (loons, quines etc.) I'm pretty sure this is fairly different from the "Ulster Scots" you mention. What was interesting is that people from a farming background had a very different accent to folks from the coastal fringe - even though they might only be living a couple of kms away!

arethuza 2y ago

What became Scotland pretty much originated with the kingdom of Dál Riata that stretched between Ireland and Britain and there are a lot of legends and myths that tell of strong connections between the two e.g. Deirdre of the Sorrows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A1l_Riata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deirdre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deirdre

amiga386 2y ago
"Pretty much" is doing a lot of work there. The kingdom of Dál Riata was predominantly the islands and the west coast of modern Scotland. Picts held the north, east and central parts of modern Scotland, the Britons of Strathclyde ruled the south-west and the Anglo-Saxons of Bernicia (later joining with Deira to form Northumbria) the south-east. There were many other tribes, this is a gross simplification. Ultimately the Picts and Celts/Scots of Dál Riata "merged" (if that's the right word? it's not clear who took over who) in the 700s-800s, for certain by the time of Kenneth MacAlpin who was both King of Dál Riata and King of the Picts, and by the 900s this was the Kingdom of Alba, later the Kingdom of Scotland. This Kingdom still did not include what's in modern south-west Scotland, that was won later.
- mbreese 2y ago
  FWIW, the British History Podcast does a pretty good job of covering Scotland and the migration of people through this period. I actually don’t know how good it is, but I do at least remember all of the names and places you mentioned. :) The podcast is quite England heavy, but does also cover Scotland and Wales, as well as the relevant parts of France, Ireland, and Denmark (as appropriate).

m-i-l 2y ago

> Scotland and Ireland are intimately linked by a common language (Gaelic) Just on parts of the west coast of Scotland - much of mainland Scotland spoke the Scots language, with the (now dead) Norn language spoken in the northern areas (with Norse heritage), and other languages in the border areas. The promotion of Scottish Gaelic as a "national language" is very much modern-day myth-building.

nmeofthestate 2y ago
It depends how far back you go. Gaelic was spoken across the country, not just on the west coast. Nowadays it's been more or less eradicated, except from the Western Isles (where it's not that widely spoken - English is the main spoken language). And it's increasingly become a political football so you see untrue statements made about its history.
- Affric 2y ago
  Do you have a source for Gaelic being spoken in places like Berwickshire? My understanding from School of was that it went straight from the Brythonic to the Germanic.
netcan 2y ago
Scots is an English dialect, descended from Northumbrian English. The dialect is arguably alive in some locales, including some places northern Ireland. To me, the dividing line is code switch. There are rural pubs and such where people will noticeably switch to standard English when speaking to non-locals. Ulster Scots, it is sometimes called. Hard to draw distinct lines, especially since the "standard" English near Scots speaking locales is not very standard. Glasgow, Newry and whatnot have pretty quirky "standard" English. That said, an average person from Newry won't code switch. If you can't understand the accent, they'll just speak loader, slower and more directly at your forehead. To me that makes it "not a dialect."
- arethuza 2y ago
  I'm originally from a small fishing village in north-east Scotland and used to speak a very broad dialect called Doric (loons, quines etc.) I'm pretty sure this is fairly different from the "Ulster Scots" you mention. What was interesting is that people from a farming background had a very different accent to folks from the coastal fringe - even though they might only be living a couple of kms away!