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> This is probably bad news for ChatGPT 5. I don't think it's that likely this co-founder would leave for a Anthropic if OpenAI were clearly in the lead. Yep.

> This is probably bad news for ChatGPT 5. I don't think it's that likely this co-founder would leave for a Anthropic if OpenAI were clearly in the lead. Yep. The writing was already on the wall for GPT-5 when they teased a new model for months and let the media believe it was GPT-5, before finally released GPT-4o and admitting they hadn't even started on 5 yet (they quietly announced they were starting a new foundation model a few weeks after 4o). Don't get me wrong, the cost savings for 4o are great, but it was pretty obvious at that point that they didn't have a clue how they were going to move past 4 in terms of capabilities. If they had a path they wouldn't have intentionally burned the hype for 5 on 4o. This departure just further cements what I was already sure was the case—OpenAI has lost the lead and doesn't know how they're going to get it back.

rvnx 2y ago
Or it could be the start of the enshittification of Anthropic, like OpenAI ruined GPT-4 with GPT-4o by overly simplifying it. I hope not, because Claude is much better, especially at programming.
- nar001 2y ago
  They ruined GPT-4? How? I thought they were basically the same models, just multimodal
  - rvnx 2y ago
    GPT-4o is different from GPT-4, you can "feel" it is smaller model that really struggles to do reasoning and programming and has a much weaker logic. If you compare to Claude Sonnet, just the context window considerably improves the answers as well. Of course there is no objective metrics, but from a user perspective I can see the coding skills are much better in Anthropic (and it's funny, because in theory, according to benchmarks it is Google Gemini the best, but in reality is absolutely terrible).
    - toxik 2y ago
      Have to say I agree with this, 4o is dumber in my subjective experience.
    - jstummbillig 2y ago
      > GPT-4o is different from GPT-4, you can "feel" it is smaller model that really struggles to do reasoning and programming and has a much weaker logic. FWIW according to LMSYS this is not the case. In coding, current GPT-4o (and mini, for that matter) beat GPT-4-Turbo handily, by a margin of 32 points. By contrast Sonnet 3.5 is #1, 4 score points ahead of GPT-4o.
      - whymauri 2y ago
        I'm a firm believer that the best benchmark is playing around with the model for like an hour. On the type of tasks that are relevant to you and your work, of course.
    - patrickdward 2y ago
      I've also found GPT-4o to be subjectively less intelligent than GPT-4. The gap especially shows up when more complex reasoning is required, eg, on macroeconomic questions or other domains in the world where the interactions are important or where subtle aspects of the question or domain are important.
- pokepim 2y ago
  [dead]
- meowface 2y ago
  Claude 3.5 Sonnet is the first model that made me realize that the era of AI-aided programming is here. Its ability to generate and modify large amounts of correct code - across multiple files/modules - in one response beats anything I've tried before. Integrating that with specialized editors (like https://www.cursor.com https://www.cursor.com) is an early vision of the future of software development.
  - rvnx 2y ago
    Oh yes, totally agree, it's like if you have a very experienced programmer sitting next to you. He still needs instructions on what to do next, he lacks a bit of "initiative", but from a pure coding skills it's amazing (aka, we will get replaced over time, and it's already the case, I don't need help of contractors, I prefer to ask Claude).
    - gizmo 2y ago
      More like an insanely knowledgeable but very inexperienced programmer. It will get basic algorithms wrong (unless it's in the exact shape it has seen before). It's like a system that automatically copy-pastes the top answer from stackoverflow in your code. Sometimes that is what you want, but most of the time it isn't.
      - valval 2y ago
        This sentiment is so far from the truth that I find it hilarious. How can a technically adept person be so out of touch with what these systems are already capable of?
        gizmo 2y ago
        LLMs can write a polite email but it can't write a good novel. It can create art or music (by mushing together things it has seen before) but not art that excites. It's the same with code. I use LLMs daily and I've seen videos of other people using tools like Cursor and so far it looks like these LLMs can only help in those situations where it is pretty obvious (to the programmer) what the right answer looks like.
userabchn 2y ago
and then revealed that GPT-5 will not be released in this year's Dev Day (which goes on until November)

rvnx 2y ago

Or it could be the start of the enshittification of Anthropic, like OpenAI ruined GPT-4 with GPT-4o by overly simplifying it. I hope not, because Claude is much better, especially at programming.

nar001 2y ago
They ruined GPT-4? How? I thought they were basically the same models, just multimodal
- rvnx 2y ago
  GPT-4o is different from GPT-4, you can "feel" it is smaller model that really struggles to do reasoning and programming and has a much weaker logic. If you compare to Claude Sonnet, just the context window considerably improves the answers as well. Of course there is no objective metrics, but from a user perspective I can see the coding skills are much better in Anthropic (and it's funny, because in theory, according to benchmarks it is Google Gemini the best, but in reality is absolutely terrible).
  - toxik 2y ago
    Have to say I agree with this, 4o is dumber in my subjective experience.
  - jstummbillig 2y ago
    > GPT-4o is different from GPT-4, you can "feel" it is smaller model that really struggles to do reasoning and programming and has a much weaker logic. FWIW according to LMSYS this is not the case. In coding, current GPT-4o (and mini, for that matter) beat GPT-4-Turbo handily, by a margin of 32 points. By contrast Sonnet 3.5 is #1, 4 score points ahead of GPT-4o.
    - whymauri 2y ago
      I'm a firm believer that the best benchmark is playing around with the model for like an hour. On the type of tasks that are relevant to you and your work, of course.
  - patrickdward 2y ago
    I've also found GPT-4o to be subjectively less intelligent than GPT-4. The gap especially shows up when more complex reasoning is required, eg, on macroeconomic questions or other domains in the world where the interactions are important or where subtle aspects of the question or domain are important.
pokepim 2y ago
[dead]
meowface 2y ago
Claude 3.5 Sonnet is the first model that made me realize that the era of AI-aided programming is here. Its ability to generate and modify large amounts of correct code - across multiple files/modules - in one response beats anything I've tried before. Integrating that with specialized editors (like https://www.cursor.com https://www.cursor.com) is an early vision of the future of software development.
- rvnx 2y ago
  Oh yes, totally agree, it's like if you have a very experienced programmer sitting next to you. He still needs instructions on what to do next, he lacks a bit of "initiative", but from a pure coding skills it's amazing (aka, we will get replaced over time, and it's already the case, I don't need help of contractors, I prefer to ask Claude).
  - gizmo 2y ago
    More like an insanely knowledgeable but very inexperienced programmer. It will get basic algorithms wrong (unless it's in the exact shape it has seen before). It's like a system that automatically copy-pastes the top answer from stackoverflow in your code. Sometimes that is what you want, but most of the time it isn't.
    - valval 2y ago
      This sentiment is so far from the truth that I find it hilarious. How can a technically adept person be so out of touch with what these systems are already capable of?
      - gizmo 2y ago
        LLMs can write a polite email but it can't write a good novel. It can create art or music (by mushing together things it has seen before) but not art that excites. It's the same with code. I use LLMs daily and I've seen videos of other people using tools like Cursor and so far it looks like these LLMs can only help in those situations where it is pretty obvious (to the programmer) what the right answer looks like.

userabchn 2y ago

and then revealed that GPT-5 will not be released in this year's Dev Day (which goes on until November)