3 ms·

Just to add to that, this number is not really representative (at least for Germany when you are working). I work full time, so I pay about 700€/month for healt

Just to add to that, this number is not really representative (at least for Germany when you are working). I work full time, so I pay about 700€/month for health insurance. Not that it's a competition but we are not that far away from your prices.

soco 2y ago
Whoa that's a lot! For me in Switzerland that's 370chf (less than 400eur). True we don't have dental included but still it's a huge difference - also wages are much higher in Switzerland so... Are you sure you don't mean your whole family plan???
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > Are you sure you don't mean your whole family plan??? In Germany, there's no dedicated "family plan" unless you're rich enough to have private insurance. Your spouse (if they are not working full time on their own and thus have insurance from that employment) and children are by default included in your plan. We don't have much included in terms of dental care either.
  - anonym29 2y ago
    Put another way, everyone in Germany except the rich are forced to pay for a full-price family plan that includes coverage for spouse and kids, and do not even have the option to instead opt for a much cheaper individual plan that only covers themself? That sounds like single people are indirectly subsidizing the healthcare of families by paying full price without reaping the full benefits. This sounds less fair to me than the American system where an individual can opt to pay much less in exchange for coverage only for themself. Unless I am misunderstanding and such an option does exist in Germany?
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > Put another way, everyone in Germany except the rich are forced to pay for a full-price family plan that includes coverage for spouse and kids, and do not even have the option to instead opt for a much cheaper individual plan that only covers themself? Well, the rich have to pay far more expensive private-insurance plans, and the 88% on the government insurance scheme pay a fixed share of their wages (~15%). Each according to their ability, and everyone is paying in solidarity with everyone else. Those on unemployment benefits have their contributions paid for by the unemployment insurance (which is also mandatory and a percentage of your wages). > That sounds like single people are indirectly subsidizing the healthcare of families by paying full price without reaping the full benefits. This sounds less fair to me than the American system where an individual can opt to pay much less in exchange for coverage only for themself. Well, the American system may sound "fairer" on paper, but has massive downsides for society at large - it disincentivises people from having children, tying healthcare to employment leads people being trapped in toxic workplace environments, and stuff like "out of pocket thresholds" is a massive issue for low-income earners, particularly those with chronic illnesses like diabetes. And: Something like diabetics stretching their insulin or people in obvious need of an ambulance telling bystanders to not call an ambulance because they can't afford it is completely unheard of here. In fact, we consider such reports to be unworthy of a "developed nation".
      - anonym29 2y ago
        I want to point out that low income earners in the states pay far less out of pocket than the middle class - the expenses of the poor are covered by Medicaid, and that's just the tip of the spear in terms of the sheer number of social assistance programs the US provisions to those experiencing poverty.
        mschuster91 2y ago
        Yeah but everyone slightly above the Medicaid threshold ends up getting fucked, and that can't be the answer either. No developed nation other than the US has "medical bankruptcy" as a routinely used term. That tells everything.
- lnsru 2y ago
  Health and care insurance in Germany combined a bit over 1000€ per working adult. During hard times it covered whole family including all kids. With working wife it’s two times 1000€ a month. So 25000€ a year for a family. But every health measure from this century and glasses are on top. So on bad years it’s normal to pay few thousands on top. So “family plan” is 30000€ in Germany. No chance to avoid it. Private insurance is not recommended for families, because kids cost extra. Edit: these are the maximal sums for white collar workers. One pays less when earning less.

soco 2y ago

Whoa that's a lot! For me in Switzerland that's 370chf (less than 400eur). True we don't have dental included but still it's a huge difference - also wages are much higher in Switzerland so... Are you sure you don't mean your whole family plan???

mschuster91 2y ago
> Are you sure you don't mean your whole family plan??? In Germany, there's no dedicated "family plan" unless you're rich enough to have private insurance. Your spouse (if they are not working full time on their own and thus have insurance from that employment) and children are by default included in your plan. We don't have much included in terms of dental care either.
- anonym29 2y ago
  Put another way, everyone in Germany except the rich are forced to pay for a full-price family plan that includes coverage for spouse and kids, and do not even have the option to instead opt for a much cheaper individual plan that only covers themself? That sounds like single people are indirectly subsidizing the healthcare of families by paying full price without reaping the full benefits. This sounds less fair to me than the American system where an individual can opt to pay much less in exchange for coverage only for themself. Unless I am misunderstanding and such an option does exist in Germany?
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > Put another way, everyone in Germany except the rich are forced to pay for a full-price family plan that includes coverage for spouse and kids, and do not even have the option to instead opt for a much cheaper individual plan that only covers themself? Well, the rich have to pay far more expensive private-insurance plans, and the 88% on the government insurance scheme pay a fixed share of their wages (~15%). Each according to their ability, and everyone is paying in solidarity with everyone else. Those on unemployment benefits have their contributions paid for by the unemployment insurance (which is also mandatory and a percentage of your wages). > That sounds like single people are indirectly subsidizing the healthcare of families by paying full price without reaping the full benefits. This sounds less fair to me than the American system where an individual can opt to pay much less in exchange for coverage only for themself. Well, the American system may sound "fairer" on paper, but has massive downsides for society at large - it disincentivises people from having children, tying healthcare to employment leads people being trapped in toxic workplace environments, and stuff like "out of pocket thresholds" is a massive issue for low-income earners, particularly those with chronic illnesses like diabetes. And: Something like diabetics stretching their insulin or people in obvious need of an ambulance telling bystanders to not call an ambulance because they can't afford it is completely unheard of here. In fact, we consider such reports to be unworthy of a "developed nation".
    - anonym29 2y ago
      I want to point out that low income earners in the states pay far less out of pocket than the middle class - the expenses of the poor are covered by Medicaid, and that's just the tip of the spear in terms of the sheer number of social assistance programs the US provisions to those experiencing poverty.
      - mschuster91 2y ago
        Yeah but everyone slightly above the Medicaid threshold ends up getting fucked, and that can't be the answer either. No developed nation other than the US has "medical bankruptcy" as a routinely used term. That tells everything.
lnsru 2y ago
Health and care insurance in Germany combined a bit over 1000€ per working adult. During hard times it covered whole family including all kids. With working wife it’s two times 1000€ a month. So 25000€ a year for a family. But every health measure from this century and glasses are on top. So on bad years it’s normal to pay few thousands on top. So “family plan” is 30000€ in Germany. No chance to avoid it. Private insurance is not recommended for families, because kids cost extra. Edit: these are the maximal sums for white collar workers. One pays less when earning less.