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I understand the importance historically but I don't agree that it's something very important about being a human being. Someone trying to impose that on me is

by Kiro 2y ago

I understand the importance historically but I don't agree that it's something very important about being a human being. Someone trying to impose that on me is as unconvincing as a religious person trying to convert me. Give me practical arguments. When I eat I want to do it alone, which is something you highlighted in your original comment, but hearing you now it's all about to the social aspects. I'm not interested in that. If I want to socialize there are far better venues for me personally. I find eating out with other people a lose-lose. The food distracts me from the conversation but the conversation distracts me from the food, and all of a sudden it's gone before I even had the chance to reflect on the taste.

frutiger 2y ago
> The food distracts me from the conversation but the conversation distracts me from the food, and all of a sudden it's gone before I even had the chance to reflect on the taste. Chew carefully. Eat slowly. Sip water. Your digestive system will thank you for it.
keiferski 2y ago
A few points: 1. History and evolution are ongoing things. They aren’t “done” and in the past. Today, right now, people use food as an important part of their culture, whether that be immigrant parents teaching their kids recipes from their home culture, a brother making food for his dying sibling (as in the link), or two friends having dinner. And that’s only on the consumption side - not to mention the entire production industrial complex that employs millions of people globally to make and prepare food - and has done so for thousands of years. “Food gatherer and preparer" probably has a claim to being the oldest profession. Food is so ingrained in human history and culture it’s basically impossible to imagine civilization without it. Which was my point about it being a human thing. 2. Your mention of religion is actually helpful too, because I think a similar attitude is prevalent when discussing religious beliefs: “That was a historical thing and it doesn’t have much effect on anything today.” Which is very much not the case; everything in the contemporary world has been shaped by religious beliefs, from the concept of the Self, individualism, the structure of political systems, democracy, universalism, on and on. Modernity is in no way a fresh beginning or clean slate in which the past doesn’t apply. That doesn’t mean you need to believe in XYZ religion today, but to deny that it has any contemporary relevance is just incorrect. 3. On the evolutionary front, the fact is that you evolved to eat in a group - the possibility of someone sitting alone eating a meal made by others basically didn’t exist until a century ago. So it formed who you are today, whether you like it or not. 4. Personally, I like to cook alone. It requires a focused approach that prevents you from scrolling TikTok or being distracted by innumerable other things. I also like to cook foods that remind me of my origins – for example, I like making pierogi, as I'm Polish and from the region where a certain type of pierogi are from. I make them using the rolling pin that was my late Polish grandma's, which also makes it a special experience. Food culture doesn't need to a social thing at all. I don’t want to assume what your opinion is but it seems to be something like, "None of that matters, all that matters is that it tastes good, comes in ready-to-eat packaging, and can be eaten alone." Which seems to me like the most depressing, reductive approach possible to something with so much cultural significance and history. Do you think the same thing about art or architecture? Literature? Films? This being HN; I’m gonna guess you’re a technical person, and so you might gain more of an appreciation for food by watching some YouTube videos on chefs working. The skill and craftsmanship can be truly impressive.
- uwagar 2y ago
  3. On the evolutionary front, the fact is that you evolved to eat in a group - the possibility of someone sitting alone eating a meal made by others basically >didn’t exist until a century ago. So it formed who you are today, whether you like it or not. diogenes (maybe buddha also) would disagree.
- Kiro 2y ago
  > Do you think the same thing about art or architecture? Literature? Films? I don't watch movies and only occasionally read books. Nothing depressing about it whatsoever. In fact, I find your reasoning much more reductive. Imagine reducing life to such mundane things when it has so much more to offer.
  - Sl1mb0 2y ago
    What more does life have to offer then?
    - mrguyorama 2y ago
      Think of all the shareholder value they must create with all that free time and lack of fuss!
  - keiferski 2y ago
    If you think all food, literature, and movies are “mundane” I’m not really sure this conversation will go anywhere.
bigstrat2003 2y ago
> I understand the importance historically but I don't agree that it's something very important about being a human being. Someone trying to impose that on me is as unconvincing as a religious person trying to convert me. Give me practical arguments. What one values, or does not value, in life is a fundamentally impractical subject. IMO you're asking for the impossible.
smallest-number 2y ago
It should be remembered that most aspects of culture developed because they have a purpose. In the case of cooking and eating good food, there are definitely practical benefits, largely psychological. One part of it is about directing attention. If you cook for yourself, you pay more attention to what you're putting into your body, and in learning how different flavors come together you learn intuitions about taste and aesthetics. In directing your attention like this, cooking can also serve as a kind of meditation / mindfulness practice. In knowing how to cook, you become able to cook for others, which is a very common way for people to connect. If a loved one is sick, making soup for them can make them feel loved and cared for, just as it can make you feel good about putting in effort to help them feel better; especially when it comes to things that you just have to wait out, like flu, something like this is an excellent way of maintaining a connection. Conversely, in knowing how much effort it takes to make a good meal you become more appreciative of meals others make for you. And finally, in cooking with someone else you learn about them and about yourself, about subtle differences that you might not have encountered otherwise. In solving a relatively easy, low-stakes problem together, you gain a sense of closeness without much risk or cost. Overall, cooking is a practice centered on ideas that are underappreciated by people too engrossed in "hustle culture" etc, so it's important to have it as a tool in today's world. Of course, everything that it provides can be found elsewhere, but these are the reasons it's so deeply ingrained in human culture. I think you would also struggle to find other things that give you all of the above, and more that I didn't go into, for so little investment. It's not that cooking makes you human or something, but cooking does help you to connect with a lot of the deeper parts of yourself that do.
itsoktocry 2y ago
>but I don't agree that it's something very important about being a human being You don't understand that the preparation of food is important to being a human being? Both physiologically and socially? Across every culture on the planet? >Someone trying to impose that on me is as unconvincing as a religious person trying to convert me. Give me practical arguments. Nobody is imposing anything on you. Nobody cares to convince you. Go ahead and eat your meals alone.

by Kiro 2y ago

frutiger 2y ago

> The food distracts me from the conversation but the conversation distracts me from the food, and all of a sudden it's gone before I even had the chance to reflect on the taste. Chew carefully. Eat slowly. Sip water. Your digestive system will thank you for it.

keiferski 2y ago

A few points: 1. History and evolution are ongoing things. They aren’t “done” and in the past. Today, right now, people use food as an important part of their culture, whether that be immigrant parents teaching their kids recipes from their home culture, a brother making food for his dying sibling (as in the link), or two friends having dinner. And that’s only on the consumption side - not to mention the entire production industrial complex that employs millions of people globally to make and prepare food - and has done so for thousands of years. “Food gatherer and preparer" probably has a claim to being the oldest profession. Food is so ingrained in human history and culture it’s basically impossible to imagine civilization without it. Which was my point about it being a human thing. 2. Your mention of religion is actually helpful too, because I think a similar attitude is prevalent when discussing religious beliefs: “That was a historical thing and it doesn’t have much effect on anything today.” Which is very much not the case; everything in the contemporary world has been shaped by religious beliefs, from the concept of the Self, individualism, the structure of political systems, democracy, universalism, on and on. Modernity is in no way a fresh beginning or clean slate in which the past doesn’t apply. That doesn’t mean you need to believe in XYZ religion today, but to deny that it has any contemporary relevance is just incorrect. 3. On the evolutionary front, the fact is that you evolved to eat in a group - the possibility of someone sitting alone eating a meal made by others basically didn’t exist until a century ago. So it formed who you are today, whether you like it or not. 4. Personally, I like to cook alone. It requires a focused approach that prevents you from scrolling TikTok or being distracted by innumerable other things. I also like to cook foods that remind me of my origins – for example, I like making pierogi, as I'm Polish and from the region where a certain type of pierogi are from. I make them using the rolling pin that was my late Polish grandma's, which also makes it a special experience. Food culture doesn't need to a social thing at all. I don’t want to assume what your opinion is but it seems to be something like, "None of that matters, all that matters is that it tastes good, comes in ready-to-eat packaging, and can be eaten alone." Which seems to me like the most depressing, reductive approach possible to something with so much cultural significance and history. Do you think the same thing about art or architecture? Literature? Films? This being HN; I’m gonna guess you’re a technical person, and so you might gain more of an appreciation for food by watching some YouTube videos on chefs working. The skill and craftsmanship can be truly impressive.

uwagar 2y ago
3. On the evolutionary front, the fact is that you evolved to eat in a group - the possibility of someone sitting alone eating a meal made by others basically >didn’t exist until a century ago. So it formed who you are today, whether you like it or not. diogenes (maybe buddha also) would disagree.
Kiro 2y ago
> Do you think the same thing about art or architecture? Literature? Films? I don't watch movies and only occasionally read books. Nothing depressing about it whatsoever. In fact, I find your reasoning much more reductive. Imagine reducing life to such mundane things when it has so much more to offer.
- Sl1mb0 2y ago
  What more does life have to offer then?
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    Think of all the shareholder value they must create with all that free time and lack of fuss!
- keiferski 2y ago
  If you think all food, literature, and movies are “mundane” I’m not really sure this conversation will go anywhere.

bigstrat2003 2y ago

> I understand the importance historically but I don't agree that it's something very important about being a human being. Someone trying to impose that on me is as unconvincing as a religious person trying to convert me. Give me practical arguments. What one values, or does not value, in life is a fundamentally impractical subject. IMO you're asking for the impossible.

smallest-number 2y ago

It should be remembered that most aspects of culture developed because they have a purpose. In the case of cooking and eating good food, there are definitely practical benefits, largely psychological. One part of it is about directing attention. If you cook for yourself, you pay more attention to what you're putting into your body, and in learning how different flavors come together you learn intuitions about taste and aesthetics. In directing your attention like this, cooking can also serve as a kind of meditation / mindfulness practice. In knowing how to cook, you become able to cook for others, which is a very common way for people to connect. If a loved one is sick, making soup for them can make them feel loved and cared for, just as it can make you feel good about putting in effort to help them feel better; especially when it comes to things that you just have to wait out, like flu, something like this is an excellent way of maintaining a connection. Conversely, in knowing how much effort it takes to make a good meal you become more appreciative of meals others make for you. And finally, in cooking with someone else you learn about them and about yourself, about subtle differences that you might not have encountered otherwise. In solving a relatively easy, low-stakes problem together, you gain a sense of closeness without much risk or cost. Overall, cooking is a practice centered on ideas that are underappreciated by people too engrossed in "hustle culture" etc, so it's important to have it as a tool in today's world. Of course, everything that it provides can be found elsewhere, but these are the reasons it's so deeply ingrained in human culture. I think you would also struggle to find other things that give you all of the above, and more that I didn't go into, for so little investment. It's not that cooking makes you human or something, but cooking does help you to connect with a lot of the deeper parts of yourself that do.

itsoktocry 2y ago

>but I don't agree that it's something very important about being a human being You don't understand that the preparation of food is important to being a human being? Both physiologically and socially? Across every culture on the planet? >Someone trying to impose that on me is as unconvincing as a religious person trying to convert me. Give me practical arguments. Nobody is imposing anything on you. Nobody cares to convince you. Go ahead and eat your meals alone.