4 ms·

> Was that all it was - inability for the masses to create and distribute media without a middleman? The difference in era was the ability to earn enough money

by bsder 2y ago

> Was that all it was - inability for the masses to create and distribute media without a middleman? The difference in era was the ability to earn enough money to exist long enough to "Git Gud". Sure, music is cheap to make today. However, that just means there are twelve zillion shitty bands that never progress past that. Many of the bands that are heralded as "awesome" really weren't to start. They generally took years to gel and often the members formed, dissolved and reformed several bands before the one that caught fire. Even the Beatles sounded like every other Merseybeat band to start. Without the ability to make money at their craft, artists don't get better at their craft. It's that simple.

bongodongobob 2y ago
This confuses skill for song writing ability. There are 1000s of world class jazz players that can play back to you anything you play them. But they are nobodies because they aren't capable of writing music people want to listen to. That's the hardest part. The Ramones are terrible musicians, but locked into something our collective consciousness liked. You can't practice or engineer that.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  >The Ramones are terrible musicians, but locked into something our collective consciousness liked. You can't practice or engineer that. I don't have enough perspective to really know, but it seems to me the record companies were a lot better at identifying this ephemeral quality decades ago, and then pushing it into the mainstream. If the Ramones came around these days, they'd probably go nowhere, but back then someone figured out that people would like listening to their music and pulled the strings to get their music into the public consciousness. >But they are nobodies because they aren't capable of writing music people want to listen to. Yep. I've even seen this with plenty of well-known musicians over the years. They achieve fame as part of some band, but then they join up with some other top-tier musicians from other bands as part of a "supergroup", and the result is completely underwhelming: technically very good, but just not all that interesting to listen to. So, many times, it seems that the "magic" came from a particular combination of people writing music together, at a particular time.
- 8bitsrule 2y ago
  > aren't capable of writing music people want to listen to. That puts most of it in a nutshell. If they -can- write music people want to listen to, they need to get it to people's ears. My problem as a listener with dollars in my hand is: how do I find that music. (Else, I can make do with what I've got... but it's not fresh! or new!) At one time, there was a system that got it to my ears. It was a radio with a great DJ who named the song and the artist after each track, so I could walk to the record store. Or else a good friend played their copy. That system is gone. NOW those musicians haven't got a way to get to my ears. In case they find it, I'll keep listening around.
  - averageRoyalty 2y ago
    > At one time, there was a system that got it to my ears. It was a radio with a great DJ who named the song and the artist after each track, so I could walk to the record store. Or else a good friend played their copy. But there is a system, and it's better at hitting more people. They post it online to somewhere with a list of people who like that type of music (Youtube, Tiktok, etc). If it is something people want to listen to, they share it and it propagates through those circles - no need to go to a record store or bring it to a friends house. Eventually it hits the older "mainstream" channels - radio, your Spotify recommendations, etc.
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    No idea what you're talking about. The system is still there. Instead of a DJ speaking the artist and song name to you, you can look at your phone screen and read it. Spotify weekly playlists are fantastic for discovering music. You can check forums or use the Google. You can talk to people. If you still want to be spoonfed what you're supposed to like, you are always free to turn on the radio for some brainless consumption, just like the good ol days.
defrost 2y ago
There's a UK band that's risen from playing to 20 people at daggy gigs to being everywhere in roughly 18 months - that's been on the back of being individually not bad musicians and then workshopping like demons for much of the time the UK was in lockdown. This might interest: Who Are The Last Dinner Party? (And What We Can Learn From Their Success) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x20i1p3iwWo&t=251s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x20i1p3iwWo&t=251s They have good original work, their Blondie cover of Call Me is more than worthy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCt0n-lqys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCt0n-lqys
- 4dregress 2y ago
  I think something is off with those guys. Their ascension seems off to me, they aren't that good, there are plenty of better bands playing at the Windmill but for some reason these guy are the chosen ones. I might be being overly cynical but thing just don't add up. :EDIT: I just looked up the credits of their first album, it's produced by my current fav producer James Ford and mixed by the legend Alan Moulder, they even got a full orchestra. This is pretty much unheard of for a debut album. They don't even have a drummer! Someone at Island records must really really really like them. It's all a bit bonkers, I'd love to see what their record deal is because the budget for that album must have been huge! Damn, it was also record at The Church Studios.
  - defrost 2y ago
    Yeah, call it luck if you like, IIRC the Violent Femmes rapidly ascended to fame on the back of busking in the right spot for the right person to see them We could argue that this particular girl band had a "cute" video that infatuated a connected producer, or ... There are few positions in the spot light and they're taken up by a fortunate few who happen to hit a sweet mix of hard work, connections, and sheer luck by varying degrees.

by bsder 2y ago

bongodongobob 2y ago

This confuses skill for song writing ability. There are 1000s of world class jazz players that can play back to you anything you play them. But they are nobodies because they aren't capable of writing music people want to listen to. That's the hardest part. The Ramones are terrible musicians, but locked into something our collective consciousness liked. You can't practice or engineer that.

shiroiushi 2y ago
>The Ramones are terrible musicians, but locked into something our collective consciousness liked. You can't practice or engineer that. I don't have enough perspective to really know, but it seems to me the record companies were a lot better at identifying this ephemeral quality decades ago, and then pushing it into the mainstream. If the Ramones came around these days, they'd probably go nowhere, but back then someone figured out that people would like listening to their music and pulled the strings to get their music into the public consciousness. >But they are nobodies because they aren't capable of writing music people want to listen to. Yep. I've even seen this with plenty of well-known musicians over the years. They achieve fame as part of some band, but then they join up with some other top-tier musicians from other bands as part of a "supergroup", and the result is completely underwhelming: technically very good, but just not all that interesting to listen to. So, many times, it seems that the "magic" came from a particular combination of people writing music together, at a particular time.
8bitsrule 2y ago
> aren't capable of writing music people want to listen to. That puts most of it in a nutshell. If they -can- write music people want to listen to, they need to get it to people's ears. My problem as a listener with dollars in my hand is: how do I find that music. (Else, I can make do with what I've got... but it's not fresh! or new!) At one time, there was a system that got it to my ears. It was a radio with a great DJ who named the song and the artist after each track, so I could walk to the record store. Or else a good friend played their copy. That system is gone. NOW those musicians haven't got a way to get to my ears. In case they find it, I'll keep listening around.
- averageRoyalty 2y ago
  > At one time, there was a system that got it to my ears. It was a radio with a great DJ who named the song and the artist after each track, so I could walk to the record store. Or else a good friend played their copy. But there is a system, and it's better at hitting more people. They post it online to somewhere with a list of people who like that type of music (Youtube, Tiktok, etc). If it is something people want to listen to, they share it and it propagates through those circles - no need to go to a record store or bring it to a friends house. Eventually it hits the older "mainstream" channels - radio, your Spotify recommendations, etc.
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  No idea what you're talking about. The system is still there. Instead of a DJ speaking the artist and song name to you, you can look at your phone screen and read it. Spotify weekly playlists are fantastic for discovering music. You can check forums or use the Google. You can talk to people. If you still want to be spoonfed what you're supposed to like, you are always free to turn on the radio for some brainless consumption, just like the good ol days.

defrost 2y ago

There's a UK band that's risen from playing to 20 people at daggy gigs to being everywhere in roughly 18 months - that's been on the back of being individually not bad musicians and then workshopping like demons for much of the time the UK was in lockdown. This might interest: Who Are The Last Dinner Party? (And What We Can Learn From Their Success) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x20i1p3iwWo&t=251s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x20i1p3iwWo&t=251s They have good original work, their Blondie cover of Call Me is more than worthy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCt0n-lqys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiCt0n-lqys

4dregress 2y ago
I think something is off with those guys. Their ascension seems off to me, they aren't that good, there are plenty of better bands playing at the Windmill but for some reason these guy are the chosen ones. I might be being overly cynical but thing just don't add up. :EDIT: I just looked up the credits of their first album, it's produced by my current fav producer James Ford and mixed by the legend Alan Moulder, they even got a full orchestra. This is pretty much unheard of for a debut album. They don't even have a drummer! Someone at Island records must really really really like them. It's all a bit bonkers, I'd love to see what their record deal is because the budget for that album must have been huge! Damn, it was also record at The Church Studios.
- defrost 2y ago
  Yeah, call it luck if you like, IIRC the Violent Femmes rapidly ascended to fame on the back of busking in the right spot for the right person to see them We could argue that this particular girl band had a "cute" video that infatuated a connected producer, or ... There are few positions in the spot light and they're taken up by a fortunate few who happen to hit a sweet mix of hard work, connections, and sheer luck by varying degrees.