4 ms·

I am not nearly as cynical as you. The culture in the US is quite different, and the citizens would have to be scared into letting something like that happen.

by dhimes 14y ago

I am not nearly as cynical as you. The culture in the US is quite different, and the citizens would have to be scared into letting something like that happen. There would be a huge debate and a groundswell of outrage. Perhaps the fearful, reacting more emotionally than rationally, would eventually persuade the majority. But I don't think so. We still expect a certain amount of freedom and privacy in the US. The fact that we even have these expectations is what sets us apart from a lot of other nations. Sometimes we (especially those of us, who, unlike you, don't have a public writing persona that lends to the occasional "I wonder what the reaction to this will be" moment) forget to step back and appreciate them. Indeed, many of our discussions are framed around these very expectations.

dubfan 14y ago
Where was the groundswell of outrage over the warrantless wiretapping program? Who is protesting the use of National Security Letters with no due process or oversight? Americans celebrate freedom and privacy but are complacent and apathetic when it comes to the erosion of those rights.
- dhimes 14y ago
  There was certainly a groundswell of outrage over warrantless wiretapping. There was plenty of anger and suspicion over things like 'get-mo'. But those policies were put in place when fear ruled the land- especially the republicans, who had expressly ignored the terrorism threat to the US in favor of defense spending aimed at missile defense. But what we haven't seen, in the wake of these disturbances are the powers being used for anything other than what they were intended. Nobody is rounding up prostitutes, or drug dealers, or even pedophiles with the powers granted by the Patriot Act. And we've seen a new administration take over and change its mind on the issue. That is: before having access to all of the information AND being the one responsible, I believe X. Now that I have the security access and is the one responsible, I believe Y. You don't have to be a genius to see what is happening. And it has nothing to do with corruption, power-grabbing, etc. My guess is John McCain wouldn't have closed the base at Guantanamo either, despite his campaign stance. It's easy to sit in the cheap seats and lob mortars of accusations at these people. It's harder to try to understand how they are trying to do the best job they can without letting go completely of their ideals. It's a wobbly boat. I hope we get some ballast good and low before too long. But I think we're still doing reasonably well-- and much better, I'm happy to say, than I feared when the Patriot Act was passed.

by dhimes 14y ago

dubfan 14y ago

Where was the groundswell of outrage over the warrantless wiretapping program? Who is protesting the use of National Security Letters with no due process or oversight? Americans celebrate freedom and privacy but are complacent and apathetic when it comes to the erosion of those rights.

dhimes 14y ago
There was certainly a groundswell of outrage over warrantless wiretapping. There was plenty of anger and suspicion over things like 'get-mo'. But those policies were put in place when fear ruled the land- especially the republicans, who had expressly ignored the terrorism threat to the US in favor of defense spending aimed at missile defense. But what we haven't seen, in the wake of these disturbances are the powers being used for anything other than what they were intended. Nobody is rounding up prostitutes, or drug dealers, or even pedophiles with the powers granted by the Patriot Act. And we've seen a new administration take over and change its mind on the issue. That is: before having access to all of the information AND being the one responsible, I believe X. Now that I have the security access and is the one responsible, I believe Y. You don't have to be a genius to see what is happening. And it has nothing to do with corruption, power-grabbing, etc. My guess is John McCain wouldn't have closed the base at Guantanamo either, despite his campaign stance. It's easy to sit in the cheap seats and lob mortars of accusations at these people. It's harder to try to understand how they are trying to do the best job they can without letting go completely of their ideals. It's a wobbly boat. I hope we get some ballast good and low before too long. But I think we're still doing reasonably well-- and much better, I'm happy to say, than I feared when the Patriot Act was passed.