4 ms·
We forget that there was at least a decade of several "Google killers" a year [1]. It's a graveyeard. That was 2009 too. The volume slowed down but people are s
by cletus 2y ago
We forget that there was at least a decade of several "Google killers" a year [1]. It's a graveyeard. That was 2009 too. The volume slowed down but people are still trying (and failing) [2].
Microsoft has of course tried but Bing is only really propped up by Microsoft's deep pockets. It's not a profitable enterprise (AFAIK). And this is with Microsoft using every trick they can to bypass EU and US consent decrees and legislation to trick users into Bing. Microsoft has poured billions into Bing.
Apple rejected Google Maps and launched their own Maps product in 2012. Obviously they consider this core to their business so I get it. But even with Apple's resources, it's taken more than a decade for Apple Maps to reach some parity with Google Maps.
It's really hard for a goose to lay a second golden egg. With Microsoft, it's their Windows/Office monopoly. With Apple it's the iPhone. Google is an outlier among outlier because they do have several golden eggs but one is much bigger than all the others (ie search).
Think about it. If Apple makes $300 billion in revenue selling iPhones (made up number), how would as an internal leader try and build a search engine? The iPhone will always take absolute priority, mainly because your search engine is such a drop in the revenue bucket. But without these resources and this priority it'll never grow big. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Sometimes just throwing money at a problem just isn't enough.
[1]: https://technologizer.com/2009/05/19/a-brief-history-of-google-killers/index.html https://technologizer.com/2009/05/19/a-brief-history-of-goog...
[2]: https://searchengineland.com/neeva-shutting-down-427384 https://searchengineland.com/neeva-shutting-down-427384
- epictluren 2y ago> [Bing]'s not a profitable enterprise It makes $10+B per year, pennies next to Google of course, but non-negligible. https://backlinko.com/bing-users# https://backlinko.com/bing-users#
- ajross 2y agoThat's a revenue number, not profit. Also the linked article says $6.24B AFAICT.
- epictluren 2y agoIf you scroll down a bit you could fine this > In the 2023 fiscal year (ends on June 30), Microsoft reported $12.2 billion in search and news advertising. Agree it is important to note this is not net, net seems to be about half according to article.
- j_maffe 2y ago> We forget that there was at least a decade of several "Google killers" a year [1]. It's a graveyard. Yes, that's called a monopoly.
- utopcell 2y agoFascinating links, I had almost forgotten about these engines.
- ilrwbwrkhv 2y agoThe big difference is that at that point of time Google search used to be really good but now Google search is really bad so if there is a chance for another competitor in the market, that time is now.
- ants_everywhere 2y agoYeah Bing really isn't bad. And LLMs are basically search engines for most use cases. I think Mozilla should just run an ad auction to choose the search engine. Bing/MS would pay to capture market share, and Google would pay to prevent Bing from gaining ground. So let them fight it out.
- ffgjgf1 2y ago> I think Mozilla should just run an ad auction to choose the search engine This is not exactly what’s happening? Google is just willing to pay more.
- ants_everywhere 2y agoAn exclusive deal is different from an auction.
- ffgjgf1 2y agoIMHO that’s mainly because the modern open/public internet kind of sucks. The ratio of content to garbage is extremely bad
- firesteelrain 2y agoMaybe. I recall searching the heck out stuff from 2000-2004 for CompSci looking for solutions to homework problems in code. There were a lot of spam sites.
- ljm 2y agoCircular problem I think, considering a lot of the garbage is a product of SEO and exists solely to game Google’s increasingly poor ranking algorithm.
- stephenr 2y ago> Google is an outlier among outlier because they do have several golden eggs but one is much bigger than all the others What "golden egg" do Google have besides an ad-selling business? Last time I looked into it ads of various forms accounted for basically all of their revenue, somewhere around 85% or more.
- ygjb 2y agoYeah, less golden eggs, and more golden funnels (Chrome, Android).
- stephenr 2y agoYoutube, gmail, photos, etc etc etc - absolutely everything consumer facing is a channel for the ad business. The only potential outlier is the cloud stuff, but even then I think it's essentially a 'economies of scale' thing, for the same reason Amazon started AWS, rather than a real revenue centre.
- shiroiushi 2y ago>What "golden egg" do Google have besides an ad-selling business? Google search, Maps, and GMail are the big 3 web services. These don't bring in revenue all by themselves, but they bring users to look at ads which is where they make all their money. There's also Chrome (directs people to Google services and facilitates their use of those services). Finally, there's Android, which is a little different but like Apple, they get revenue from the Play Store on it, and again push users to use their own search engine and browser.
- stephenr 2y ago> These don't bring in revenue all by themselves Thus they're not eggs at all, either golden or otherwise > but they bring users to look at ads which is where they make all their money Ad sales is their golden egg. Practically everything else is an egg truck to sell that one thing.
- 2y ago
- smsm42 2y agoYou can't seriously bring 2009 as a proof the situation now is the same. In Internet terms, it's like arguing current politics with examples of the time of Charlemagne.
- ffgjgf1 2y agoWell search engines were actually useful back in those days and there was room for competition.
- est31 2y agoHow a search engine looks hasn't fundamentally changed since then. I'd argue the same about other products, like phones, excel, word, or operating systems like Windows. Yes, the newest versions of these have more sophistication than earlier iterations, but they are just extensions of the original basic idea. Sure the iPhone 15's camera is way better than the original iPhone's, but it's still a phone with a camera and a maps app. Also, states are different than they used to be, but there is still a lot to learn from history, and you often see that similar struggles get fought over and over, or similar mistakes get made. Verdun has been a major battleground in WW1 because that's where Charlemagne's legacy got split up. As another example of a phrase still relevant today, there is "Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_turbulent_priest%3F https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_no_one_rid_me_of_this_tur...
- pcwalton 2y ago> It's really hard for a goose to lay a second golden egg. With Microsoft, it's their Windows/Office monopoly. With Apple it's the iPhone. Google is an outlier among outlier because they do have several golden eggs but one is much bigger than all the others (ie search). No, in fact, Azure's revenue is higher than that of Windows and Office combined [1]. Microsoft is far more diversified than Google is. Google has been trying for a decade to achieve Microsoft's diversification and has not succeeded (Bard being the latest such failure). [1]: https://www.visualcapitalist.com/microsofts-revenue-by-product-line/ https://www.visualcapitalist.com/microsofts-revenue-by-produ...