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> So what's going to happen? Apple might make their own search engine. Apple has a team that's been creating a next-generation search engine codenamed Pegasus
by nabla9 2y ago
> So what's going to happen?
Apple might make their own search engine. Apple has a team that's been creating a next-generation search engine codenamed Pegasus under John Giannandrea. They already have search engines for App Store, Maps, Apple TV and News and Spotlight.
Apple web search development worked as bargaining chip in pricing negotiations with Google. Google paid them $20 billion per year to not compete as much as keeping other competitors away.
- philistine 2y agoYeah, the calculus is simple. You just lose 20 billion in potential pure profits. Google is paying you 34% of all search revenue originated by you. You have all the financial structure of your own search engine right there. Just make your own damn search engine. You could even put Google's own ads on it to make some money that way.
- talldayo 2y agoGod forbid their advertising looks anything like it does in Apple News. But with their recent Taboola deal it would seem like their standards are falling, not rising.
- DaoVeles 2y agoTim Cook is merely out to keep the stock price going up just like every other business. Because they had a longer runway from the era of Steve Jobs, they look better by comparison but they will try and do every trick that everyone else has done to keep the next quarter going up.
- mucle6 2y agoIf apple wanted to or thought they could make a profitable search engine, wouldn't they have already done it?
- nabla9 2y agoNot as profitable as monopoly. Sharing monopoly profit with Google is more profitable for both and loss for the consumers. Both Apple and Google make less profits if they compete against each other, but consumers benefit from two search engines trying to compete against each other.
- voiceblue 2y agoApple does not like to compete. They would rather call it spatial computing and price their product in an astronomical band than risk being seen as yet another VR headset competitor. They will never make a search engine. On the other hand, they have already made a search engine. Which you don’t think of as one, and which provides a boost to their ecosystem tie-in.
- morepork 2y agoThe question is not whether Apple could make a profitable search engine. The question is whether they could make a search engine more profitable than the billions they are getting paid each year by Google to make Google search the default.
- MoneyFight 2y agoAlso the cost opportunity. If Apple decides to make a search engine and eats $100 billion out of Google's $500 billion profit (made up numbers), Google will just spend back $100 billion (or whatever constitutes a blank warfare check) for year into completely annihilating Apple's presence. They will literally stop people from finding any page that even remotely mentions their 'AppleSearch' and also deprioritize a bunch of other products too unless if you type out, exact word, 'AppleSearch' or whatever it'd be called. So now you're Apple, here's a question: Will you spend $200 billion fighting back? When will this stop? You're Apple, and this is a stupid move.
- utopcell 2y agoThey've been trying to make a car for the past decade, arguably an easier task than making a search engine.
- cletus 2y agoWe forget that there was at least a decade of several "Google killers" a year [1]. It's a graveyeard. That was 2009 too. The volume slowed down but people are still trying (and failing) [2]. Microsoft has of course tried but Bing is only really propped up by Microsoft's deep pockets. It's not a profitable enterprise (AFAIK). And this is with Microsoft using every trick they can to bypass EU and US consent decrees and legislation to trick users into Bing. Microsoft has poured billions into Bing. Apple rejected Google Maps and launched their own Maps product in 2012. Obviously they consider this core to their business so I get it. But even with Apple's resources, it's taken more than a decade for Apple Maps to reach some parity with Google Maps. It's really hard for a goose to lay a second golden egg. With Microsoft, it's their Windows/Office monopoly. With Apple it's the iPhone. Google is an outlier among outlier because they do have several golden eggs but one is much bigger than all the others (ie search). Think about it. If Apple makes $300 billion in revenue selling iPhones (made up number), how would as an internal leader try and build a search engine? The iPhone will always take absolute priority, mainly because your search engine is such a drop in the revenue bucket. But without these resources and this priority it'll never grow big. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Sometimes just throwing money at a problem just isn't enough. [1]: https://technologizer.com/2009/05/19/a-brief-history-of-google-killers/index.html https://technologizer.com/2009/05/19/a-brief-history-of-goog... [2]: https://searchengineland.com/neeva-shutting-down-427384 https://searchengineland.com/neeva-shutting-down-427384
- epictluren 2y ago> [Bing]'s not a profitable enterprise It makes $10+B per year, pennies next to Google of course, but non-negligible. https://backlinko.com/bing-users# https://backlinko.com/bing-users#
- ajross 2y agoThat's a revenue number, not profit. Also the linked article says $6.24B AFAICT.
- epictluren 2y ago
- SpacePortKnight 2y agoApple could make a search engine but by the same logic, they wouldn't be able to make it default on their devices.
- otterley 2y agoWhy not? They did it for Maps.
- bdd8f1df777b 2y agoEven though Apple hasn’t been sued for Apple Maps, they are not safe from such antitrust charges. The antitrust cases move slowly so it’s possible that they just haven’t gotten to there.
- shagie 2y agoApple Maps is now on the web ( https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/24/24205449/apple-maps-web-beta https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/24/24205449/apple-maps-web-b... ) So far, Company + Map hasn't caused any problems with even bigger players and tighter interegration (Google + Google Maps and Microsoft + Nokia ( https://news.microsoft.com/2013/09/03/microsoft-to-acquire-nokias-devices-services-business-license-nokias-patents-and-mapping-services/ https://news.microsoft.com/2013/09/03/microsoft-to-acquire-n... )).
- shiroiushi 2y agoInterestingly, Apple Maps' new beta doesn't work on Linux at all, even with Chrome, so I can't see it. They say it works on Chrome on Windows or Mac, but apparently Apple doesn't like Linux very much.
- petepete 2y ago> Apple Maps is now on the web Just tried it and Chrome isn't supported!
- jonhohle 2y ago
- utopcell 2y agoSo long as they don't prevent users from switching to Google, I'd honestly like to see that search engine. And on the grand scheme of things, maybe it's good for Google to have some pressure against making choices that lead to search results quality decline.
- dehrmann 2y ago> [Apple] already have search engines for App Store, Maps, Apple TV and News and Spotlight. This is completely different than a general-purpose search engine.
- singularity2001 2y agoand they even completely fail at this easier task
- dehrmann 2y agoIt's both easier and harder. The scale part is easy (the index is <1TB), but there's almost no training data for feedback.
- nytesky 2y agoSearch is dead anyways. It’s all SEO nonsense. I would rather have a curated list of validated sights. Like recipes only from actual chefs or publications, news from newspapers and networks, be absolutely sure the address I am looking at is my BANKS website. All the Reddit, twitter, Pinterest, and blog stuff can stay in the Google wasteland and gotcha ad links.
- TeMPOraL 2y agoOh the irony. You know that: > Like recipes only from actual chefs or publications, news from newspapers and networks are the first-party garbage on the Internet? It's all content marketing written to push ads. Yes, including "recipes only from actual chefs" - chefs have better things to do than to maintain an on-line presence; if you see one, it's most likely a brand where the chef gets paid for the rights to their name, and any actual writing is done by marketing interns mashing together whatever they can find on social media. In fact, if you really want authentic recipes from real chefs, your best bet is Reddit - there's bound to be a few bored chefs hanging around relevant subreddits, exchanging ideas and providing expert tips, just because it's a fun thing to do. So yeah, search is bad and the web is a SEO wasteland, but the brands big and small aren't victims here - they're the ones who caused it, and who perpetuate it, because it's easier money than actually delivering something of value.
- firesteelrain 2y agoAppend reddit to searches is the secret weapon. Use it all the time
- account42 2y agoEnjoy it while it lasts. Marketers have been wising up to that trick.
- nytesky 2y agoBy actual Chefs I mean like Bobby Flay or Matha Stewart. I don’t expect working chefs to give away their crafted recipes on a website. I am looking for like a simple crepe and meatloaf recipe, and end up with some really odd SEO boosted directions.
- singularity2001 2y ago> They already have search engines for App Store if their Internet search engine was as good as their App Store search engine then we would need to wait half a minute to get oranges if we search for tomatoes
- teitoklien 2y agoThey already have a tiny instant search engine which shows 1 result of a url at top. I’d say its pretty accurate and impressive 95% of the time to the point im impressed at how good its suggestions are considering it’s just the top 1 search.
- timcederman 2y agoFunny you're showing up as downvoted, but this is absolutely right. Apple is testing their search abilities with URL autocomplete and it's surprisingly good. It's gotten much better in the last 6 months in particular.
- teitoklien 2y agoNow you’re downvoted too. I dont know the logic behind us getting downvoted just discussing about a search feature present in apple’s browser There are some weird people in this thread
- notinmykernel 2y agoHonestly, I'm surprised to see anyone talk explicitly about Apple internal works. Is that public knowledge?
- teitoklien 2y agoYes, all info here: [9to5Mac article on apple search engine](https://9to5mac.com/2023/10/02/apple-pegasus-google-search/ https://9to5mac.com/2023/10/02/apple-pegasus-google-search/)
- nox101 2y agoApple is under anti-trust investigation too. Adding a search engine to their monopoly isn't going to help their case either.