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> People use Google because it's the default, not because they will go out of their way to keep using it. Is this actually true? Microsoft has bent over backw

> People use Google because it's the default, not because they will go out of their way to keep using it. Is this actually true? Microsoft has bent over backwards trying making it inconvenient to get Chrome + Google on any new device. There's even the whole "Edge is the #1 browser to install Chrome" meme. Normies just really like Google.

causal 2y ago
Fair point, but I wasn't able to verify the claim that most Windows users are not using Edge since its release. I am curious what the actual % is for new Windows PC installs that are not governed by a corporate policy.
apexalpha 2y ago
Not just normies, its just the best search engine…
j_maffe 2y ago
It's funny you say that because as an Edge user, I constantly get bombarded with popups on Google websites asking me to switch to Chrome. It's all about who's on top and how to keep it that way, not quality.
kyleplum 2y ago
> Is this actually true? I mean Google obviously thinks it is otherwise they wouldn't be paying Apple $20 billion a year.
rtpg 2y ago
People have buy-in to Chrome that I think might be more than the buy-in to the search engine at this point. People like their set of extensions, and know how to use it. Meanwhile if the search bar works when typing things in and gives you good results, I think a lot of people will be fine with whatever.
belorn 2y ago
How many stories have you seen with "I search for X, and all the top results are advertisements"? The latest that I recall that I saw on HN was "Now all results above the fold are ads". Its not uncommon to search for product X, only to find product Z being ranked above the official store of X. Google search is advertisement first, quality second. Bing may be equally crappy too. Microsoft "welcome to edge" page is a bunch of advertisement for Microsoft products and then in the corner there is a search window. I have not tested bing itself to see if their flood of advertisements are as bad as google, but I sure do not trust Microsoft. Windows start menu being overloaded with advertisements are a cautionary tale of what happen when Microsoft is copying google. Normies do not like having advertisement being thrown in their face, but they will tolerate it if they have no choice or if the advertisement is hidden enough that they do not know that what they see is a bought listing.
- dehrmann 2y ago
  > Its not uncommon to search for product X, only to find product Z being ranked above the official store of X. I'm surprised there hasn't been a class action racketeering charge brought. And this is exactly how a protection racket works. You wouldn't want some other brand in the top position when they search for your brand term. You should just pay us to make sure that doesn't happen.
- alphabetting 2y ago
  Id wager SEO/AI slop is a much bigger problem for Google than ad load for their userbase. Only 20% of queries have ads so 4 out of 5 times ads won't even be seen. But on those 4 out of 5 do have the chance of turning users away from Google with awful SEO optimized sites and AI slop.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > Its not uncommon to search for product X, only to find product Z being ranked above the official store of X. Google search is advertisement first, quality second. While I was at eBay, there was a company announcement praising one executive who had noticed that eBay spent a lot of money on placing Google ads for searches like "ebay", when obviously someone searching for "ebay" can find it in the search results. He canceled the ads, and it worked! There was no significant decline in traffic. But that's a problem for Google, and the situation you describe is the obvious solution. If people won't advertise on searches where they should appear in the actual results, the way to get them to advertise is to stop having actual results.
Dalewyn 2y ago
>Is this actually true? Yes and no. Yes, it has been demonstrated time and time again that most people do not go and change the defaults even if they could. Most people actually prefer having less dials, even if they say they want more dials. No, because Chrome isn't the default in Windows (ChromiumEdge), MacOS (Safari), iOS (Safari), most if not all the Linuxes (Firefox), and most if not all the BSDs (Firefox). Chrome is only the default browser in Android, but Android is a Google operating system so this shouldn't be a surprise. Also, this is one of the most spectacular exceptions to most people not changing defaults.
unethical_ban 2y ago
Yes it is true. The company I currently work at is 95% Bing users because they all use Edge and Bing is the default. It's a medium sized company of normal non techie people. The default matters.
- dialogbox 2y ago
  But can Bing the default for Edge after this suit? I believe even Edge needs to ask which search engine to be used in the beginning. If that happens, possibly even more non techie's may use Google.
- wiether 2y ago
  This. Since W11 I've seen much more _normies_ use Edge and the result is that they are using Bing for their searches. On the other hand, Google is the default on Android's Chrome and iOS' Safari, so they use Google there.

causal 2y ago

Fair point, but I wasn't able to verify the claim that most Windows users are not using Edge since its release. I am curious what the actual % is for new Windows PC installs that are not governed by a corporate policy.

apexalpha 2y ago

Not just normies, its just the best search engine…

j_maffe 2y ago

It's funny you say that because as an Edge user, I constantly get bombarded with popups on Google websites asking me to switch to Chrome. It's all about who's on top and how to keep it that way, not quality.

kyleplum 2y ago

> Is this actually true? I mean Google obviously thinks it is otherwise they wouldn't be paying Apple $20 billion a year.

rtpg 2y ago

People have buy-in to Chrome that I think might be more than the buy-in to the search engine at this point. People like their set of extensions, and know how to use it. Meanwhile if the search bar works when typing things in and gives you good results, I think a lot of people will be fine with whatever.

belorn 2y ago

How many stories have you seen with "I search for X, and all the top results are advertisements"? The latest that I recall that I saw on HN was "Now all results above the fold are ads". Its not uncommon to search for product X, only to find product Z being ranked above the official store of X. Google search is advertisement first, quality second. Bing may be equally crappy too. Microsoft "welcome to edge" page is a bunch of advertisement for Microsoft products and then in the corner there is a search window. I have not tested bing itself to see if their flood of advertisements are as bad as google, but I sure do not trust Microsoft. Windows start menu being overloaded with advertisements are a cautionary tale of what happen when Microsoft is copying google. Normies do not like having advertisement being thrown in their face, but they will tolerate it if they have no choice or if the advertisement is hidden enough that they do not know that what they see is a bought listing.

dehrmann 2y ago
> Its not uncommon to search for product X, only to find product Z being ranked above the official store of X. I'm surprised there hasn't been a class action racketeering charge brought. And this is exactly how a protection racket works. You wouldn't want some other brand in the top position when they search for your brand term. You should just pay us to make sure that doesn't happen.
alphabetting 2y ago
Id wager SEO/AI slop is a much bigger problem for Google than ad load for their userbase. Only 20% of queries have ads so 4 out of 5 times ads won't even be seen. But on those 4 out of 5 do have the chance of turning users away from Google with awful SEO optimized sites and AI slop.
thaumasiotes 2y ago
> Its not uncommon to search for product X, only to find product Z being ranked above the official store of X. Google search is advertisement first, quality second. While I was at eBay, there was a company announcement praising one executive who had noticed that eBay spent a lot of money on placing Google ads for searches like "ebay", when obviously someone searching for "ebay" can find it in the search results. He canceled the ads, and it worked! There was no significant decline in traffic. But that's a problem for Google, and the situation you describe is the obvious solution. If people won't advertise on searches where they should appear in the actual results, the way to get them to advertise is to stop having actual results.

Dalewyn 2y ago

>Is this actually true? Yes and no. Yes, it has been demonstrated time and time again that most people do not go and change the defaults even if they could. Most people actually prefer having less dials, even if they say they want more dials. No, because Chrome isn't the default in Windows (ChromiumEdge), MacOS (Safari), iOS (Safari), most if not all the Linuxes (Firefox), and most if not all the BSDs (Firefox). Chrome is only the default browser in Android, but Android is a Google operating system so this shouldn't be a surprise. Also, this is one of the most spectacular exceptions to most people not changing defaults.

unethical_ban 2y ago

Yes it is true. The company I currently work at is 95% Bing users because they all use Edge and Bing is the default. It's a medium sized company of normal non techie people. The default matters.

dialogbox 2y ago
But can Bing the default for Edge after this suit? I believe even Edge needs to ask which search engine to be used in the beginning. If that happens, possibly even more non techie's may use Google.
wiether 2y ago
This. Since W11 I've seen much more _normies_ use Edge and the result is that they are using Bing for their searches. On the other hand, Google is the default on Android's Chrome and iOS' Safari, so they use Google there.