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Today, airplanes are not great when it comes to their environmental impacts. If we are successful in our bet that we can grow the GA market, we'll have the reso

Today, airplanes are not great when it comes to their environmental impacts. If we are successful in our bet that we can grow the GA market, we'll have the resources to invest into greener propulsion technology. That space is currently evolving quickly, with hybrid-electric, hydrogen, full electric and others all being explored. So it's in our plans to address that as well.

namdnay 2y ago
So your plan to reduce aircraft pollution is to… have more aircraft in the sky? Come on…
- mightyham 2y ago
  Innovation doesn't come from nowhere, and demand for air travel is not going away. So if there is a small, personal, innovative platform that makes it easier to test new propulsion technology at scale (in contrast to large commercial airliners that are less innovative), it seems entirely possible that could help with aircraft pollution in the long run
  - Aachen 2y ago
    I'm sure that's what tobacco companies tell themselves also There is also the option of not being part of the problem and finding a different job. Not an option for all employees, full ack on that, but this founder/ceo figure can absolutely make that choice I see what you mean in that flying will always be something humanity does. We're not going to outlaw it, I have no illusions in that regard. Way too convenient and economically beneficial. Working on making it more accessible when we haven't made it even close to sustainable (with most of the solutions here today, it just needs to be scaled up and rolled out) instead of working on sustainability or alternatives to flying under a pretense of "it'll be better eventually!" is what I object to
shafyy 2y ago
Don't try to weasel your way out of this. Just be honest and say you like working on cool plane tech stuff and admit it's not great for the environment when more people will fly. No shame in that. Or maybe there is shame, but that's up to you.
- n_ermosh 2y ago
  maybe I wasn't clear but I completely agree that airplanes are not good for the environment. That absolutely needs to be fixed. But to fix it requires capital and public demand. We are hoping to generate both by getting more people flying so that it's not just a niche people who fly planes and care about the environment working asking for it and spending money in the industry
  - burkaman 2y ago
    This is like saying that you know gas power plants are not good for the environment, so you're hoping to get gas generators into more homes to generate capital and demand to fix the problem. If your company is successful enough for you to invest significant resources into "greener propulsion technology", what is going to happen to all the planes you already sold to get there? Are you going to send an email blast out to all your customers telling them to stop flying now because it's time to pivot to hydrogen planes?
    - mightyham 2y ago
      Classic false equivalence. Mature airplane engine technology based on alternative energy really doesn't exsit at the moment, while the same cannot be said for residential energy. The existence of the a fossil fuel based car market provided an impetus for electric car and battery technology to develop. Similarly, practical alternative energy flight will likely develop faster if there is a market for small, innovative aircrafts.
  - breck 2y ago
    > airplanes are not good for the environment. > to fix it requires capital and public demand. In my engineering career, one thing I've learned is that if you fix problems B, C, and D, often it becomes a lot easier to fix orthogonal problem A, because the other fixes have made new things possible. I see what you are doing as fixing a lot of problems with flying, so then more attention can go into making planes quieter and more energy efficient. Perhaps yours is one of the steps to making planes as peaceful in the environment as birds[0]. [0] https://breckyunits.com/ifNatureIsDoingIt.html https://breckyunits.com/ifNatureIsDoingIt.html
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
So you have no incentive to vote for a carbon tax
duped 2y ago
I didn't want to make a snarky, unabashadly NIMBY comment until I read this response. For every dollar you lower barrier to entry in aviation, I'm going to be calling my local government representatives to raise it back up by two with taxes and fees. The solutions to environmental problems aren't to grow markets with technology we know is bad so we have the money to make it less bad. The solution is to make it so expensive for the average consumer that it's uneconomical to do the bad thing at all.
- amluto 2y ago
  > I'm going to be calling my local government representatives to raise it back up by two with taxes and fees. Sometimes I think this sort of approach is why so many people on the right are sick of global warming. Sure, global warming is a serious problem, but that doesn't mean that taxing things you don't like is wise, fair, effective, or in any other respect a good idea. If you have a problem with emission of gasses with global warming potential, do that, but please do it across the board. Let's not specifically tax GA planes, ban gas water heaters, and do a bunch of other random minor-ish things that annoy people and don't actually target the problem.
  - callalex 2y ago
    Burning fossil fuels is the problem. We can argue until the cows come home about things like plastic straws and bags, but the fact is that burning fossil fuels is rapidly destroying the planet and no amount of burning is sustainable. Banning that is table stakes.
    - amluto 2y ago
      Proposing to ban burning fossil fuels entirely is a great way to get very little support for your proposal.
      - smolder 2y ago
        Hence the decades of inaction and even subterfuge to prevent action.

namdnay 2y ago

So your plan to reduce aircraft pollution is to… have more aircraft in the sky? Come on…

mightyham 2y ago
Innovation doesn't come from nowhere, and demand for air travel is not going away. So if there is a small, personal, innovative platform that makes it easier to test new propulsion technology at scale (in contrast to large commercial airliners that are less innovative), it seems entirely possible that could help with aircraft pollution in the long run
- Aachen 2y ago
  I'm sure that's what tobacco companies tell themselves also There is also the option of not being part of the problem and finding a different job. Not an option for all employees, full ack on that, but this founder/ceo figure can absolutely make that choice I see what you mean in that flying will always be something humanity does. We're not going to outlaw it, I have no illusions in that regard. Way too convenient and economically beneficial. Working on making it more accessible when we haven't made it even close to sustainable (with most of the solutions here today, it just needs to be scaled up and rolled out) instead of working on sustainability or alternatives to flying under a pretense of "it'll be better eventually!" is what I object to

shafyy 2y ago

Don't try to weasel your way out of this. Just be honest and say you like working on cool plane tech stuff and admit it's not great for the environment when more people will fly. No shame in that. Or maybe there is shame, but that's up to you.

n_ermosh 2y ago
maybe I wasn't clear but I completely agree that airplanes are not good for the environment. That absolutely needs to be fixed. But to fix it requires capital and public demand. We are hoping to generate both by getting more people flying so that it's not just a niche people who fly planes and care about the environment working asking for it and spending money in the industry
- burkaman 2y ago
  This is like saying that you know gas power plants are not good for the environment, so you're hoping to get gas generators into more homes to generate capital and demand to fix the problem. If your company is successful enough for you to invest significant resources into "greener propulsion technology", what is going to happen to all the planes you already sold to get there? Are you going to send an email blast out to all your customers telling them to stop flying now because it's time to pivot to hydrogen planes?
  - mightyham 2y ago
    Classic false equivalence. Mature airplane engine technology based on alternative energy really doesn't exsit at the moment, while the same cannot be said for residential energy. The existence of the a fossil fuel based car market provided an impetus for electric car and battery technology to develop. Similarly, practical alternative energy flight will likely develop faster if there is a market for small, innovative aircrafts.
- breck 2y ago
  > airplanes are not good for the environment. > to fix it requires capital and public demand. In my engineering career, one thing I've learned is that if you fix problems B, C, and D, often it becomes a lot easier to fix orthogonal problem A, because the other fixes have made new things possible. I see what you are doing as fixing a lot of problems with flying, so then more attention can go into making planes quieter and more energy efficient. Perhaps yours is one of the steps to making planes as peaceful in the environment as birds[0]. [0] https://breckyunits.com/ifNatureIsDoingIt.html https://breckyunits.com/ifNatureIsDoingIt.html

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago

So you have no incentive to vote for a carbon tax

duped 2y ago

I didn't want to make a snarky, unabashadly NIMBY comment until I read this response. For every dollar you lower barrier to entry in aviation, I'm going to be calling my local government representatives to raise it back up by two with taxes and fees. The solutions to environmental problems aren't to grow markets with technology we know is bad so we have the money to make it less bad. The solution is to make it so expensive for the average consumer that it's uneconomical to do the bad thing at all.

amluto 2y ago
> I'm going to be calling my local government representatives to raise it back up by two with taxes and fees. Sometimes I think this sort of approach is why so many people on the right are sick of global warming. Sure, global warming is a serious problem, but that doesn't mean that taxing things you don't like is wise, fair, effective, or in any other respect a good idea. If you have a problem with emission of gasses with global warming potential, do that, but please do it across the board. Let's not specifically tax GA planes, ban gas water heaters, and do a bunch of other random minor-ish things that annoy people and don't actually target the problem.
- callalex 2y ago
  Burning fossil fuels is the problem. We can argue until the cows come home about things like plastic straws and bags, but the fact is that burning fossil fuels is rapidly destroying the planet and no amount of burning is sustainable. Banning that is table stakes.
  - amluto 2y ago
    Proposing to ban burning fossil fuels entirely is a great way to get very little support for your proposal.
    - smolder 2y ago
      Hence the decades of inaction and even subterfuge to prevent action.