3 ms·

We need to include in this analogy that the bank is robbed every other week because they forgot to close the vault or they left a pile of cash sitting outside w

We need to include in this analogy that the bank is robbed every other week because they forgot to close the vault or they left a pile of cash sitting outside while they went to lunch. In such a situation if an upstanding citizen checks that the vault is actually locked--"did they remember to lock it today?"--the actions of that citizen don't concern me. But let's set the analogy aside. If companies want full control over their systems and who may test the security of those systems, that's fine with me, so long as their full control also comes with full liability. The problem is we currently give companies full control without any responsibility or liability.

warkdarrior 2y ago
Responsibility and liability are usually established in court, so go ahead and sue all the companies that have your data. Also you need to demonstrate that you incurred some tangible loss from a data breach.
- Buttons840 2y ago
  Yes. To get redress I must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees (try suing a company like Equifax or AT&T for less) and also provide detailed evidence of exactly what criminal organizations from all over the world have done with my data. Does this seem reasonable? If I fail to meet this standard does that really mean I wasn't harmed? And does this standard apply the other direction? If I personally test the security of a company without permission, do they have to prove that I caused actual damage before I am punished? If the moral standard applies evenly, then I should be able to try opening the vault, and if I fail, no harm done. The bank must show actual harm before I am punished. But no, there is no even application of moral standards here; when it comes to individuals testing security the act itself is criminalized regardless of whether or not harm was done. It is even a felony to experiment with physical devices you own in many cases.

warkdarrior 2y ago

Responsibility and liability are usually established in court, so go ahead and sue all the companies that have your data. Also you need to demonstrate that you incurred some tangible loss from a data breach.

Buttons840 2y ago
Yes. To get redress I must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees (try suing a company like Equifax or AT&T for less) and also provide detailed evidence of exactly what criminal organizations from all over the world have done with my data. Does this seem reasonable? If I fail to meet this standard does that really mean I wasn't harmed? And does this standard apply the other direction? If I personally test the security of a company without permission, do they have to prove that I caused actual damage before I am punished? If the moral standard applies evenly, then I should be able to try opening the vault, and if I fail, no harm done. The bank must show actual harm before I am punished. But no, there is no even application of moral standards here; when it comes to individuals testing security the act itself is criminalized regardless of whether or not harm was done. It is even a felony to experiment with physical devices you own in many cases.