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> Nobody thanked me. Do you think this is still true? This resonates with me. I used to work in tech, but I recently joined my family's brick-and-mortar busin

> Nobody thanked me. Do you think this is still true? This resonates with me. I used to work in tech, but I recently joined my family's brick-and-mortar business. No one says thank you, no one appreciates you. I find it amazing that this culture of thanklessness exists even in the US (I'm in India) in non-tech jobs. P.S. I worked at all fronts of the business before joining the management. Worked at the counter, as a delivery personal, as a sales executive, etc. And when I say "Nobody thanked me" I mean no one at the company appreciated my efforts.

duxup 2y ago
I'm curious what qualifies as "nobody thanked me". If I told someone "good job" that's not really thanks in my mind. I probably wouldn't say "thank you for making the fries"... but I would say "good job".
- meiraleal 2y ago
  And that's being the job, it wouldn't make sense to repeat it, multiple times, multiple days
- your_challenger 2y ago
  It's more that no one appreciates the work. Not the customers (which I don't expect), nor the management. Businesses like these are about showing up everyday - day in and day out. Unlike in tech, you can't be just smart and find "smart solutions". There is no magic. And so people are always in a state of normalcy. And any kind of "smart" execution takes a lot of time to see its results.
- Brian_K_White 2y ago
  As a customer, I always say thanks for whatever someone did for me, and it I always feel like smacking another customer whrn they are on their phone while giving an order to someone at a counter, like the human behind that register was actually just part of the register. Just an npc, or a toaster. The company they work for does see them that way and treats them that way, but we have no excuse for doing the same. As an employee, or a boss, I don't find it ridiculous to thank or be thanked for random tasks occasionally, especially when they are a little out of order. No one needs to be worshiped for making fries, and it's techically simply within the expected job description for the manager to tell you to go out back and wash the rubber floor mats or something slightly not your usual task, and yet never acknowledging anything ever is also just being an inconsiderate ingrateful assshole. It's worth it not to be that guy even if only for the purely self-interest reasons of having more and better choice of employees who do a better job on average and give you less grief when you need a favor like to cover someone else's absense or a large job etc. Asking instead of telling at least sometimes, and saying thanks at least sometimes, has to be genuine too. If it's just bs noises that don't actually mean you are being accomodating and flexible then don't bother. Even though the boss is the boss, and has the right to just didctate, and even if the thing you're asking is really all else being equal a command, the reason for asking is not just as a pacifier so someone feels respected when thy're not, it's to allow for the possibility that there actually is some problem. 99% of the time there should be no problem and thr answer is expected to be "yep got it", by asking, the person is far less stressed on an ongoing constant level feeling that if there ever was some problem, they could just say so. It turns dictation into cooperation. Can you restock that station later? I have to pick up my kid. Can you do it now if I take you off this other thing? ok. ok. Much better that way. Thanks for cooking the fries, or even good job on those fries does sound silly, because it is, because it kind of misses the point and isn't what they're talking about.
  - ForOldHack 2y ago
    Oh my god. It would be unbelievable if I had not whitnessed it myself. I wonder what is the kick? Exaggerated self importance. ( Thanks for the spell checking ...)
- petsfed 2y ago
  I think part of what they mean is that some retail managers seem utterly incapable of giving positive feedback in anyway except to sandwich a criticism. Like yes, it can stave off bad responses from volatile colleagues to sandwich bad feedback with good, but if that's the only place that positive feedback appears, then the listener learns pretty quick to just ignore the positive feedback. Its evidently disingenuous, and its deeply toxic to assume that "because you're working at McDonald's/Walmart/etc, you're not smart enough to pick up on that". Certainly, "thank you for making the fries" is poor thanks. But "I saw how you hustled to get the fries out during that rush, that made $other_employees jobs a lot easier. Thank you for that" is good. Too often, retail employees just get the "thanks" and not the "here's why I appreciate it".
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
It depends on where and when you work. When I was a teenager in the 90s I worked cashier at McDonald's in an inner city black neighborhood. On Sunday mornings we got a big crowd of people coming to/from church, and I'd say the majority of them were very kind and courteous - I even got a tip a few times. I also worked Saturday afternoon/evenings and it was a different story.
josefresco 2y ago
> Nobody thanked me. I don't buy this for a second. I thank everyone for even the most trivial of interactions and I'm certainly not alone (in the US) Buy a Coke at 7-11 - "thank you!" Take package from UPS guy - "thank you!" Waiter takes order - "thank you!" Support rep puts me on hold to look up issue - "thank you!" Pretty much every retail/store interaction - "thank you!"
- your_challenger 2y ago
  People like you do exist. And it is a joy to serve you. When I said "nobody thanked me", I mean the management didn't. (edited for clarity)
  - digging 2y ago
    This comes across as quite rude, FYI. You may want to clarify and be more specific.
    - your_challenger 2y ago
      Thank you. I hope I fixed it.
  - josefresco 2y ago
    Thanks for the clarification - see there I go again!
- neilv 2y ago
  I couldn't figure that one out. Maybe he was speaking of management, franchise, and McD corporate? Or maybe it was a quirk of that store in NYC, or our own experiences are otherwise not representative? Or maybe he was writing more loosely, about a "thankless", poorly appreciated, poorly compensated, purely transactional job.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  My partner and I were normally polite when picking up ice cream from a local dairy a few weeks back. "No rush, take your time." Nothing overly fancy from a manners or politeness perspective. Was offered free ice cream for "being the nicest folks we've had in a long time." Didn't take the free ice cream of course, but thanked the folks working. I suspect overall impoliteness has seen a bit of an uptick, from my casual observation of the sociomacro (especially during airport and air transportation transit and use), and that gratitude is not expressed in casual interactions as perhaps it previously was. https://hbr.org/2022/11/frontline-work-when-everyone-is-angry https://hbr.org/2022/11/frontline-work-when-everyone-is-angr... ("Frontline Work When Everyone Is Angry") https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2015-28930-001 https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2015-28930-001 ("Catching rudeness is like catching a cold: The contagion effects of low-intensity negative behaviors.")
mikestew 2y ago
I took it to mean that no manager ever thanked them. Because, like sibling comments, I can’t believe no one like myself and siblings ordered a burger and said “thank you”. Hundreds of customers at that counter everyday, someone had to have uttered those words. But management, OTOH… (Alternatively, “no one” being defined as “the vast, vast majority of customers”. That I could believe.)
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
I've been doing nonprofit (free) work for decades. I almost never get thanked; even after doing tens of thousands of dollars' worth of free work. That's fine. That's not why I do it. This reminded me of American Beauty, for some reason...
jdietrich 2y ago
Here in England, there's a very significant cultural divide between North and South. One of the key symbols of that cultural divide is whether people thank the bus driver when disembarking. In London, thanking the driver would make you a bit of a weirdo; in Newcastle, not thanking the driver would make you dreadfully antisocial. I imagine that there's a huge difference in this respect between a McDonalds in Manhattan and one in a small town.
- another-dave 2y ago
  In London I often see people thanking the driver. At least outside of rush hour & outside zone 1
  - harry_ord 2y ago
    Yeah I see it all the time on buses where you exit by the front door.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- frereubu 2y ago
  I think it's a central London / outside central London thing. Just in my personal experience people in both Brighton and Somerset thank the driver, and I bet there are plenty of other places like that in the south.
  - sph 2y ago
    I picked up the habit of saying "cheers drive!" after living in Bristol.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  In Dublin, thanking the bus driver is such an ingrained thing that Dublin Bus use it in their job ads (“Get thanked for a living” was a recent one). The switch to two-door buses has complicated this, obviously.
xkcd-sucks 2y ago
> Do you think this is still true? Personal opinion, when intra org reciprocity is not discussed or measured, quality plummets as a necessary response to stress/burnout feedback loops at every scale. Coming to terms with this """insight""" etc. was tl;dr life changing and exactly how is still an open question
hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
Yep. (I'm in the US.) The transactionalization of aspects of both work and life is depressing. I think it's a confluence of multiple factors that may or may not be present in all circumstances: a lack of manners, a power imbalance, and/or a view that someone who provides a service is a widget rather than a human being. Some data points: - My next door neighbors in a small town residential neighborhood are poorer, but don't say "please" or "thank you" for anything. - An entitled Brahmin dude I used to work with at a Big Name University™ grew up with a dozen servants never gave gratitude or used pleasantries. - Some other employees at a MAANG I used to work for as well as other residents in the apartments I lived in had an attitude of "too cool for everyone else" and didn't use pleasantries. Without rapport and humanity by showing a little real decency and compassion, life and business interactions become commoditized and cold, and that intangible cool or goodwill evaporates and nothing much holds people to each other or people to a brand.

duxup 2y ago

I'm curious what qualifies as "nobody thanked me". If I told someone "good job" that's not really thanks in my mind. I probably wouldn't say "thank you for making the fries"... but I would say "good job".

meiraleal 2y ago
And that's being the job, it wouldn't make sense to repeat it, multiple times, multiple days
your_challenger 2y ago
It's more that no one appreciates the work. Not the customers (which I don't expect), nor the management. Businesses like these are about showing up everyday - day in and day out. Unlike in tech, you can't be just smart and find "smart solutions". There is no magic. And so people are always in a state of normalcy. And any kind of "smart" execution takes a lot of time to see its results.
Brian_K_White 2y ago
As a customer, I always say thanks for whatever someone did for me, and it I always feel like smacking another customer whrn they are on their phone while giving an order to someone at a counter, like the human behind that register was actually just part of the register. Just an npc, or a toaster. The company they work for does see them that way and treats them that way, but we have no excuse for doing the same. As an employee, or a boss, I don't find it ridiculous to thank or be thanked for random tasks occasionally, especially when they are a little out of order. No one needs to be worshiped for making fries, and it's techically simply within the expected job description for the manager to tell you to go out back and wash the rubber floor mats or something slightly not your usual task, and yet never acknowledging anything ever is also just being an inconsiderate ingrateful assshole. It's worth it not to be that guy even if only for the purely self-interest reasons of having more and better choice of employees who do a better job on average and give you less grief when you need a favor like to cover someone else's absense or a large job etc. Asking instead of telling at least sometimes, and saying thanks at least sometimes, has to be genuine too. If it's just bs noises that don't actually mean you are being accomodating and flexible then don't bother. Even though the boss is the boss, and has the right to just didctate, and even if the thing you're asking is really all else being equal a command, the reason for asking is not just as a pacifier so someone feels respected when thy're not, it's to allow for the possibility that there actually is some problem. 99% of the time there should be no problem and thr answer is expected to be "yep got it", by asking, the person is far less stressed on an ongoing constant level feeling that if there ever was some problem, they could just say so. It turns dictation into cooperation. Can you restock that station later? I have to pick up my kid. Can you do it now if I take you off this other thing? ok. ok. Much better that way. Thanks for cooking the fries, or even good job on those fries does sound silly, because it is, because it kind of misses the point and isn't what they're talking about.
- ForOldHack 2y ago
  Oh my god. It would be unbelievable if I had not whitnessed it myself. I wonder what is the kick? Exaggerated self importance. ( Thanks for the spell checking ...)
petsfed 2y ago
I think part of what they mean is that some retail managers seem utterly incapable of giving positive feedback in anyway except to sandwich a criticism. Like yes, it can stave off bad responses from volatile colleagues to sandwich bad feedback with good, but if that's the only place that positive feedback appears, then the listener learns pretty quick to just ignore the positive feedback. Its evidently disingenuous, and its deeply toxic to assume that "because you're working at McDonald's/Walmart/etc, you're not smart enough to pick up on that". Certainly, "thank you for making the fries" is poor thanks. But "I saw how you hustled to get the fries out during that rush, that made $other_employees jobs a lot easier. Thank you for that" is good. Too often, retail employees just get the "thanks" and not the "here's why I appreciate it".

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

It depends on where and when you work. When I was a teenager in the 90s I worked cashier at McDonald's in an inner city black neighborhood. On Sunday mornings we got a big crowd of people coming to/from church, and I'd say the majority of them were very kind and courteous - I even got a tip a few times. I also worked Saturday afternoon/evenings and it was a different story.

josefresco 2y ago

> Nobody thanked me. I don't buy this for a second. I thank everyone for even the most trivial of interactions and I'm certainly not alone (in the US) Buy a Coke at 7-11 - "thank you!" Take package from UPS guy - "thank you!" Waiter takes order - "thank you!" Support rep puts me on hold to look up issue - "thank you!" Pretty much every retail/store interaction - "thank you!"

your_challenger 2y ago
People like you do exist. And it is a joy to serve you. When I said "nobody thanked me", I mean the management didn't. (edited for clarity)
- digging 2y ago
  This comes across as quite rude, FYI. You may want to clarify and be more specific.
  - your_challenger 2y ago
    Thank you. I hope I fixed it.
- josefresco 2y ago
  Thanks for the clarification - see there I go again!
neilv 2y ago
I couldn't figure that one out. Maybe he was speaking of management, franchise, and McD corporate? Or maybe it was a quirk of that store in NYC, or our own experiences are otherwise not representative? Or maybe he was writing more loosely, about a "thankless", poorly appreciated, poorly compensated, purely transactional job.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
My partner and I were normally polite when picking up ice cream from a local dairy a few weeks back. "No rush, take your time." Nothing overly fancy from a manners or politeness perspective. Was offered free ice cream for "being the nicest folks we've had in a long time." Didn't take the free ice cream of course, but thanked the folks working. I suspect overall impoliteness has seen a bit of an uptick, from my casual observation of the sociomacro (especially during airport and air transportation transit and use), and that gratitude is not expressed in casual interactions as perhaps it previously was. https://hbr.org/2022/11/frontline-work-when-everyone-is-angry https://hbr.org/2022/11/frontline-work-when-everyone-is-angr... ("Frontline Work When Everyone Is Angry") https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2015-28930-001 https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2015-28930-001 ("Catching rudeness is like catching a cold: The contagion effects of low-intensity negative behaviors.")

mikestew 2y ago

I took it to mean that no manager ever thanked them. Because, like sibling comments, I can’t believe no one like myself and siblings ordered a burger and said “thank you”. Hundreds of customers at that counter everyday, someone had to have uttered those words. But management, OTOH… (Alternatively, “no one” being defined as “the vast, vast majority of customers”. That I could believe.)

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

I've been doing nonprofit (free) work for decades. I almost never get thanked; even after doing tens of thousands of dollars' worth of free work. That's fine. That's not why I do it. This reminded me of American Beauty, for some reason...

jdietrich 2y ago

Here in England, there's a very significant cultural divide between North and South. One of the key symbols of that cultural divide is whether people thank the bus driver when disembarking. In London, thanking the driver would make you a bit of a weirdo; in Newcastle, not thanking the driver would make you dreadfully antisocial. I imagine that there's a huge difference in this respect between a McDonalds in Manhattan and one in a small town.

another-dave 2y ago
In London I often see people thanking the driver. At least outside of rush hour & outside zone 1
- harry_ord 2y ago
  Yeah I see it all the time on buses where you exit by the front door.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
frereubu 2y ago
I think it's a central London / outside central London thing. Just in my personal experience people in both Brighton and Somerset thank the driver, and I bet there are plenty of other places like that in the south.
- sph 2y ago
  I picked up the habit of saying "cheers drive!" after living in Bristol.
rsynnott 2y ago
In Dublin, thanking the bus driver is such an ingrained thing that Dublin Bus use it in their job ads (“Get thanked for a living” was a recent one). The switch to two-door buses has complicated this, obviously.

xkcd-sucks 2y ago

> Do you think this is still true? Personal opinion, when intra org reciprocity is not discussed or measured, quality plummets as a necessary response to stress/burnout feedback loops at every scale. Coming to terms with this """insight""" etc. was tl;dr life changing and exactly how is still an open question

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago

Yep. (I'm in the US.) The transactionalization of aspects of both work and life is depressing. I think it's a confluence of multiple factors that may or may not be present in all circumstances: a lack of manners, a power imbalance, and/or a view that someone who provides a service is a widget rather than a human being. Some data points: - My next door neighbors in a small town residential neighborhood are poorer, but don't say "please" or "thank you" for anything. - An entitled Brahmin dude I used to work with at a Big Name University™ grew up with a dozen servants never gave gratitude or used pleasantries. - Some other employees at a MAANG I used to work for as well as other residents in the apartments I lived in had an attitude of "too cool for everyone else" and didn't use pleasantries. Without rapport and humanity by showing a little real decency and compassion, life and business interactions become commoditized and cold, and that intangible cool or goodwill evaporates and nothing much holds people to each other or people to a brand.