7 ms·

> Upgradability was a defect of technology not being good enough for long periods The other thing to consider is that the same applies to repairing technology.

> Upgradability was a defect of technology not being good enough for long periods The other thing to consider is that the same applies to repairing technology. Why are we putting resource into catering for the tiny minority of a given product which experience mechanical failures which we can fix? 90% of BlackBerry users will never change the battery on their device. 100% of BlackBerries have a stupid door on the back which allows you to remove the battery and eventually becomes very loose and slides off. 80% of MacBook Retinas (at least) will never have a hardware problem (as long as Apple has finally learned how to correctly apply thermal paste). The ones who do we replace. The economics of replacing an entire device are finally starting to make sense. That's the really exciting thing about this. It is no longer cheaper for Apple to pay technical people in stores and service centres to cater for failure rates in hardware. It is now cheaper to throw the broken thing away and get a new one, and take a chance on not having two successive one-chance-in-a-million failures for the user.

bedris 14y ago
90% of BlackBerry users will never change the battery on their device. 100% of BlackBerries have a stupid door on the back which allows you to remove the battery and eventually becomes very loose and slides off. True, but it was sometimes the only way you could do a hard reboot on those things!
- georgespencer 14y ago
  Oh god don't remind me. You'd hear a notification for a text message, unlock the device and you'd see > JAVA MESSAGE ERROR Which required removing the battery to do a hard reset (which took about 120 seconds).
  - KeyBoardG 14y ago
    I used to have an auto-reboot app that scheduled hard resets to free memory and reduce crashes. So glad to be off that platform now.
    - eddieroger 14y ago
      I thought there was an OS feature that did that. I remember scheduling a reboot nightly at 3am. I loved that phone at the time, but hate it in hindsight.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- hinathan 14y ago
  So pulling the battery becomes a crutch for the RIM software team. No need to do a more elegant watchdog timer or properly trap Java errors. Just pull the battery!
  - ConstantineXVI 14y ago
    To be fair, that strategy worked pretty well for Unix: >We went to lunch afterward, and I remarked to Dennis that easily half the code I was writing in Multics was error recovery code. He said, "We left all that stuff out. If there's an error, we have this routine called panic, and when it is called, the machine crashes, and you holler down the hall, 'Hey, reboot it.'"[0] [0]http://www.multicians.org/unix.html http://www.multicians.org/unix.html
dododo 14y ago
that doesn't sound like such a great innovation from an environmental point of view. nor a sustainable use of resources. is it easy to re-use parts from these failed devices?
- georgespencer 14y ago
  For a while now Apple has operated a recycling programme which allows users to take their unwanted devices into their store and recycle them (usually incentivised with a discount a replacement device). (I don't buy the anecdotal "Nobody can recycle aluminium with glass pressed into it" line from the article.)
  - makomk 14y ago
    It's entirely believable that no-one can recycle aluminium and glass that are glued together in an economically viable way. Apparently one of the major things that dictates how easy something is to recycle is how easy it is to seperate components that are made of different materials.
- Atrus6 14y ago
  Maintaining a supply of spare parts for a line of notebooks could very well use more natural resources than maintaining a supply of working laptops for replacement.
swah 14y ago
> The economics of replacing an entire device are finally starting to make sense How do they come off as sustainable and cool when their are responsible for all this trash production?
- stouset 14y ago
  Highly-recyclable parts of glass and aluminum. The anecdote from the article aside, Apple operates a recycling program where you can simply bring in your old hardware (IIRC) for a discount on the new hardware.
- falling 14y ago
  > How do they come off as sustainable and cool when their are responsible for all this trash production? How do they come off as sustainable and cool when Greenpeace was protesting in front of Infinite Loop a month ago?
  - Karunamon 14y ago
    Yeah but that's Greenpeace. As far as credibility goes, Greenpeace:environment::Sea Shepherds:marine life
    - nicw 14y ago
      To add a quasi-citation, here is a story where Greenpeace was fined for running into a coral reef - one that they had showed up to protect http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4395572.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4395572.stm
  - spiralpolitik 14y ago
    Greenpeace protesting outside of Apple is front page headlines. Greenpeace protesting outside of <random PC manufacturer> is page 5 at best. When you want to make the 6pm news you go after the guys that gives you the most publicity, rather than the guys that are worse offenders.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- georgespencer 14y ago
  > Wow, this is really not true at all. Actually it is! The failure rate for a MacBook Pro was way under 2/10 when I was there during the lifespan of the product. Apple calculates the lifespan of a product in different terms to the warranty. The warranties differ by country (EMEA & US have different warranties thanks to EU and individual state laws). You're right that these machines can and will go for five years. My current laptop, a 17" MacBook Pro, has been with me since ~2007. It'll go for another year at least. Apple will replace these devices when they are in warranty. True. But the concept of a warranty is what is wrong, not the replacement of an entire device. It's better to have a device which is far less likely to suffer mechanical failure, which happens to require a more expensive repair when it does, than it is to have a device far more likely to suffer mechanical failure but with cheaper repairs (for a few select problems). If you can't afford a MacBook Pro don't buy one. There are other machines on the market which are highly user-replaceable. I'm going to buy the new Retina, I won't be getting AppleCare, and I bet it lasts just as long if not longer as anything else you buy.
  - Udo 14y ago
    I deleted my post because honestly I think Apple and its future belongs to users like yourself, and that it will work out fine for everyone in the end. Just know that I have been buying a respectable number of Apple machines over the years, including three Mac Pros - which probably just confirms that I really am a member of an audience that Apple actively tries to get rid of. So yeah, I can afford a MacBook Pro. I'm just choosing not to, anymore.
    - flatline3 14y ago
      What will you replace it with? That's my problem -- I require Mac OS X.
      - Udo 14y ago
CamperBob2 14y ago
The economics of replacing an entire device are finally starting to make sense. Exactly. The distinction between a "device" and a "component" is no longer particularly interesting or important. We're dealing with pieces of the 2001 monolith here, for better or worse.

bedris 14y ago

90% of BlackBerry users will never change the battery on their device. 100% of BlackBerries have a stupid door on the back which allows you to remove the battery and eventually becomes very loose and slides off. True, but it was sometimes the only way you could do a hard reboot on those things!

georgespencer 14y ago
Oh god don't remind me. You'd hear a notification for a text message, unlock the device and you'd see > JAVA MESSAGE ERROR Which required removing the battery to do a hard reset (which took about 120 seconds).
- KeyBoardG 14y ago
  I used to have an auto-reboot app that scheduled hard resets to free memory and reduce crashes. So glad to be off that platform now.
  - eddieroger 14y ago
    I thought there was an OS feature that did that. I remember scheduling a reboot nightly at 3am. I loved that phone at the time, but hate it in hindsight.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
hinathan 14y ago
So pulling the battery becomes a crutch for the RIM software team. No need to do a more elegant watchdog timer or properly trap Java errors. Just pull the battery!
- ConstantineXVI 14y ago
  To be fair, that strategy worked pretty well for Unix: >We went to lunch afterward, and I remarked to Dennis that easily half the code I was writing in Multics was error recovery code. He said, "We left all that stuff out. If there's an error, we have this routine called panic, and when it is called, the machine crashes, and you holler down the hall, 'Hey, reboot it.'"[0] [0]http://www.multicians.org/unix.html http://www.multicians.org/unix.html

dododo 14y ago

that doesn't sound like such a great innovation from an environmental point of view. nor a sustainable use of resources. is it easy to re-use parts from these failed devices?

georgespencer 14y ago
For a while now Apple has operated a recycling programme which allows users to take their unwanted devices into their store and recycle them (usually incentivised with a discount a replacement device). (I don't buy the anecdotal "Nobody can recycle aluminium with glass pressed into it" line from the article.)
- makomk 14y ago
  It's entirely believable that no-one can recycle aluminium and glass that are glued together in an economically viable way. Apparently one of the major things that dictates how easy something is to recycle is how easy it is to seperate components that are made of different materials.
Atrus6 14y ago
Maintaining a supply of spare parts for a line of notebooks could very well use more natural resources than maintaining a supply of working laptops for replacement.

swah 14y ago

> The economics of replacing an entire device are finally starting to make sense How do they come off as sustainable and cool when their are responsible for all this trash production?

stouset 14y ago
Highly-recyclable parts of glass and aluminum. The anecdote from the article aside, Apple operates a recycling program where you can simply bring in your old hardware (IIRC) for a discount on the new hardware.
falling 14y ago
> How do they come off as sustainable and cool when their are responsible for all this trash production? How do they come off as sustainable and cool when Greenpeace was protesting in front of Infinite Loop a month ago?
- Karunamon 14y ago
  Yeah but that's Greenpeace. As far as credibility goes, Greenpeace:environment::Sea Shepherds:marine life
  - nicw 14y ago
    To add a quasi-citation, here is a story where Greenpeace was fined for running into a coral reef - one that they had showed up to protect http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4395572.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4395572.stm
- spiralpolitik 14y ago
  Greenpeace protesting outside of Apple is front page headlines. Greenpeace protesting outside of <random PC manufacturer> is page 5 at best. When you want to make the 6pm news you go after the guys that gives you the most publicity, rather than the guys that are worse offenders.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

georgespencer 14y ago
> Wow, this is really not true at all. Actually it is! The failure rate for a MacBook Pro was way under 2/10 when I was there during the lifespan of the product. Apple calculates the lifespan of a product in different terms to the warranty. The warranties differ by country (EMEA & US have different warranties thanks to EU and individual state laws). You're right that these machines can and will go for five years. My current laptop, a 17" MacBook Pro, has been with me since ~2007. It'll go for another year at least. Apple will replace these devices when they are in warranty. True. But the concept of a warranty is what is wrong, not the replacement of an entire device. It's better to have a device which is far less likely to suffer mechanical failure, which happens to require a more expensive repair when it does, than it is to have a device far more likely to suffer mechanical failure but with cheaper repairs (for a few select problems). If you can't afford a MacBook Pro don't buy one. There are other machines on the market which are highly user-replaceable. I'm going to buy the new Retina, I won't be getting AppleCare, and I bet it lasts just as long if not longer as anything else you buy.
- Udo 14y ago
  I deleted my post because honestly I think Apple and its future belongs to users like yourself, and that it will work out fine for everyone in the end. Just know that I have been buying a respectable number of Apple machines over the years, including three Mac Pros - which probably just confirms that I really am a member of an audience that Apple actively tries to get rid of. So yeah, I can afford a MacBook Pro. I'm just choosing not to, anymore.
  - flatline3 14y ago
    What will you replace it with? That's my problem -- I require Mac OS X.
    - Udo 14y ago

CamperBob2 14y ago

The economics of replacing an entire device are finally starting to make sense. Exactly. The distinction between a "device" and a "component" is no longer particularly interesting or important. We're dealing with pieces of the 2001 monolith here, for better or worse.