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There are no high-quality single payer systems that are currently functioning at or above American health care quality. This is doubly true if you're looking fo

There are no high-quality single payer systems that are currently functioning at or above American health care quality. This is doubly true if you're looking for a 300M+ person system. It is true that other countries achieve their broken health systems at a lower cost than the US does.

spzb 2y ago
What makes you think the US health system is of a superior quality to that of any other in the world?
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  Nope. The GP asserted something without evidence so I am engaging with that same standard. What makes you think "every other developed nation" has higher quality (and single-payer) healthcare systems?
  - blactuary 2y ago
    Again, every other developed nation has roughly the same outcomes as the US, but at a much lower cost per person. And a substantial portion of our population has no access to health care, which is not true in those other countries. This is not a policy prescription or advocacy for anything, it's simply factually describing the situation.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  In my opinion, more innovations (which the rest of the world’s public systems do benefit from), better customer service, better patient care (far fewer rude or abusive nurses and doctors), higher standards (quality of facilities and attention to detail and time spent with patient), flexibility (between providers, in scheduling, and even in the care/procedures you receive), etc. Oh and the ability to receive the care you are willing to pay for at all, instead of being denied. I do think there are lots of flaws too but feel they’re addressable with targeted legislation instead of some massive change.
blactuary 2y ago
This is not true. The US does not have better overall outcomes than the rest of the western world. We are better in some areas, worse in others, but overall outcomes are roughly the same, at a much higher cost per person
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  I do agree that US costs are much higher per person. It is not true that countries with our scale (population) are at or above our healthcare quality (scale matters). For reference, here are the countries I am talking about: India, China, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria, Brazil, Bangladesh, Russia, Mexico. Those are the Top-10 most populous countries (with US at number 3, after China). Mexico at #10 has 200M fewer persons, so calling that the same scale is generous. I have no doubt that Norway or Singapore has better healthcare than the US.
  - blactuary 2y ago
    Scale does not matter. If anything scale makes it easier. Those countries are not peers with the US when it comes to wealth and resources.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
      >scale does not matter The actual data seems to indicate the exact opposite. Countries with large populations aren't able to provide inexpensive healthcare, while countries with smaller populations achieve better outcomes at a lower cost edit: I've read some of your other comments on this post and I really enjoy the deep level of understanding you're bringing on the actual article's topic. I just think you're wrong about the specific scale thing that I'm talking about
      - blactuary 2y ago
        I would argue that the quality of governance of those countries and the strength of their economies relative to the US dramatically outweigh looking at size alone. Size makes things easier. The more scale the more predictable the costs. We have a single payer system for everyone 65+, because we had the political will to do it, and it remains funded and functional because it is an important and powerful political bloc. A lot of people make a lot of money from the dysfunction of the system for everyone else and they fight tooth and nail to keep that gravy train flowing.

spzb 2y ago

What makes you think the US health system is of a superior quality to that of any other in the world?

ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
Nope. The GP asserted something without evidence so I am engaging with that same standard. What makes you think "every other developed nation" has higher quality (and single-payer) healthcare systems?
- blactuary 2y ago
  Again, every other developed nation has roughly the same outcomes as the US, but at a much lower cost per person. And a substantial portion of our population has no access to health care, which is not true in those other countries. This is not a policy prescription or advocacy for anything, it's simply factually describing the situation.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
In my opinion, more innovations (which the rest of the world’s public systems do benefit from), better customer service, better patient care (far fewer rude or abusive nurses and doctors), higher standards (quality of facilities and attention to detail and time spent with patient), flexibility (between providers, in scheduling, and even in the care/procedures you receive), etc. Oh and the ability to receive the care you are willing to pay for at all, instead of being denied. I do think there are lots of flaws too but feel they’re addressable with targeted legislation instead of some massive change.

blactuary 2y ago

This is not true. The US does not have better overall outcomes than the rest of the western world. We are better in some areas, worse in others, but overall outcomes are roughly the same, at a much higher cost per person

ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
I do agree that US costs are much higher per person. It is not true that countries with our scale (population) are at or above our healthcare quality (scale matters). For reference, here are the countries I am talking about: India, China, Indonesia, Pakistan, Nigeria, Brazil, Bangladesh, Russia, Mexico. Those are the Top-10 most populous countries (with US at number 3, after China). Mexico at #10 has 200M fewer persons, so calling that the same scale is generous. I have no doubt that Norway or Singapore has better healthcare than the US.
- blactuary 2y ago
  Scale does not matter. If anything scale makes it easier. Those countries are not peers with the US when it comes to wealth and resources.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    >scale does not matter The actual data seems to indicate the exact opposite. Countries with large populations aren't able to provide inexpensive healthcare, while countries with smaller populations achieve better outcomes at a lower cost edit: I've read some of your other comments on this post and I really enjoy the deep level of understanding you're bringing on the actual article's topic. I just think you're wrong about the specific scale thing that I'm talking about
    - blactuary 2y ago
      I would argue that the quality of governance of those countries and the strength of their economies relative to the US dramatically outweigh looking at size alone. Size makes things easier. The more scale the more predictable the costs. We have a single payer system for everyone 65+, because we had the political will to do it, and it remains funded and functional because it is an important and powerful political bloc. A lot of people make a lot of money from the dysfunction of the system for everyone else and they fight tooth and nail to keep that gravy train flowing.