6 ms·

Having lived in a number of European countries with single payer systems some of which are in a state of collapse, that's not even remotely true. I would charac

Having lived in a number of European countries with single payer systems some of which are in a state of collapse, that's not even remotely true. I would characterize the level of care I receive in the US (fully paid by my employer) as absolutely top notch.

barbazoo 2y ago
> fully paid by my employer A privilege not everyone enjoys
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > privilege not everyone enjoys 55% of Americans [1], and, I’d guess, a commanding majority of likely voters. [1] https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-271.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-27...
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    I don't see anything in that link about "fully paid" so the number of people with employer-provided health insurance fully paid by the employer is probably much lower. > In 2019, the percentage of people with employer-provided coverage at the time of interview was slightly higher than in 2018, from 55.2 percent in 2018 to 55.4 percent in 2019
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > don't see anything in that link about "fully paid" so the number of people with employer-provided health insurance fully paid by the employer is probably much lower You’re right. Tough to find statistics, in part because “fully paid” is ambiguous. (Saw this [1].) The figure I should have referred to is 72% of Americans being happy with their own healthcare [2]. You’re not going to get single payer without convincing them they’re trading up. [1] https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/what-percent-of-health-insurance-is-paid-by-employers https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/what-percent-of-health-insur... [2] https://news.gallup.com/poll/468176/americans-sour-healthcare-quality.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/468176/americans-sour-healthcar...
  - sadboi31 2y ago
    In my city (Pittsburgh) over half of the workers who work at our largest healthcare provider surveyed have some kind of debt to that same entity. My own mother is one of those people and she has been climbing for years. Funny how that works. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/union-raises-concerns-over-medical-debt-of-upmc-workers.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/union-raises-c...
  - reaperman 2y ago
    I am included in that 55% but my deductible and OOP max are too high for my salary so i still can’t go to the doctor because i don’t have an extra $8k per year to spend on it.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
      You can't go to the doctor for your free annual visit because your OOP max is too high?
      - olliej 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - reaperman 2y ago
        What is the point of limiting the scope of discussion to a single visit per year? Am I missing some context from the article that makes this relevant to things like the expense of follow-up visits to confirm/treat complex diagnoses such as secondary hypoaldosteronism, discussed in the article? In my case, I have multiple conditions that require expensive monthly or annual visits, which I’ve severely lapsed on.
  - aidenn0 2y ago
    I'm counted in that group but still pay several thousand a year out-of-pocket.
  - olliej 2y ago
    So 45% do not, and that’s ok? Or the huge percentage of that 55% where their coverage is high deductible, so it’s functionally just a “you won’t be instantly bankrupted if you have a heart attack” not basic healthcare? The bizarrely antisocial and frankly sociopathic “I’ve got mine, other people can get fucked” attitude people like you have is sickening.
    - relativ575 2y ago
      You are very hostile in this thread. The GP didn't say anywhere that it was ok for people to be uninsured. Neither did they say they were among the 55% figure. Secondly, it's easy to find some official figures - [0] From January through June 2023, among people of all ages, 7.4% were uninsured, 40.7% had public coverage, and 60.8% had private coverage at the time of interview And: The percentage of adults who were uninsured decreased from 14.7% in 2019 to 10.7% in the first 6 months of 2023. Public coverage increased from 2019 (20.4%) through the first 6 months of 2023 (23.6%). No significant trend in private coverage was observed between 2019 (66.8%) and the first 6 months of 2023 (67.7%) In other words, the majority of people in the US (> 90%) have insurance -- private, public, or both. [0] - https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhis/earlyrelease/insur202312.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhis/earlyrelease/insur202312....
  - ojbyrne 2y ago
    In my experience in the US,”employer-provided” is not the same as “fully paid for by my employer.” Generally there is an employee-paid portion of the monthly premiums.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  That is true. It's just not clear to me that we need a system where everyone has "free" (taxpayer-funded) healthcare.
  - spzb 2y ago
    Maybe you should ask the people who currently aren't covered if it's a good idea
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    So why not make everyone pay full economic cost? Ban employers from giving out insurance. Make everyone pay for their own fully.
IOT_Apprentice 2y ago
I’d wager you have a copay, a deductible and a maximum amount your plan will cover. And if you are laid off you have nothing unless you sign up for COBRA which charges huge amounts monthly. The European single payer systems are underfunded intentionally by “conservatives” who want to skim off the top by privatization and loath offering it to the poor & working class.
aidenn0 2y ago
I don't really follow European health-care policies, but the friends of mine who do seem to think public health care with a private-option (e.g. France) is better than single-payer. I've also heard that the German system works reasonably well, which is also not a single-payer system.

barbazoo 2y ago

> fully paid by my employer A privilege not everyone enjoys

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> privilege not everyone enjoys 55% of Americans [1], and, I’d guess, a commanding majority of likely voters. [1] https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-271.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-27...
- ryandrake 2y ago
  I don't see anything in that link about "fully paid" so the number of people with employer-provided health insurance fully paid by the employer is probably much lower. > In 2019, the percentage of people with employer-provided coverage at the time of interview was slightly higher than in 2018, from 55.2 percent in 2018 to 55.4 percent in 2019
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > don't see anything in that link about "fully paid" so the number of people with employer-provided health insurance fully paid by the employer is probably much lower You’re right. Tough to find statistics, in part because “fully paid” is ambiguous. (Saw this [1].) The figure I should have referred to is 72% of Americans being happy with their own healthcare [2]. You’re not going to get single payer without convincing them they’re trading up. [1] https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/what-percent-of-health-insurance-is-paid-by-employers https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/what-percent-of-health-insur... [2] https://news.gallup.com/poll/468176/americans-sour-healthcare-quality.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/468176/americans-sour-healthcar...
- sadboi31 2y ago
  In my city (Pittsburgh) over half of the workers who work at our largest healthcare provider surveyed have some kind of debt to that same entity. My own mother is one of those people and she has been climbing for years. Funny how that works. https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/union-raises-concerns-over-medical-debt-of-upmc-workers.html https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/union-raises-c...
- reaperman 2y ago
  I am included in that 55% but my deductible and OOP max are too high for my salary so i still can’t go to the doctor because i don’t have an extra $8k per year to spend on it.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    You can't go to the doctor for your free annual visit because your OOP max is too high?
    - olliej 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - reaperman 2y ago
      What is the point of limiting the scope of discussion to a single visit per year? Am I missing some context from the article that makes this relevant to things like the expense of follow-up visits to confirm/treat complex diagnoses such as secondary hypoaldosteronism, discussed in the article? In my case, I have multiple conditions that require expensive monthly or annual visits, which I’ve severely lapsed on.
- aidenn0 2y ago
  I'm counted in that group but still pay several thousand a year out-of-pocket.
- olliej 2y ago
  So 45% do not, and that’s ok? Or the huge percentage of that 55% where their coverage is high deductible, so it’s functionally just a “you won’t be instantly bankrupted if you have a heart attack” not basic healthcare? The bizarrely antisocial and frankly sociopathic “I’ve got mine, other people can get fucked” attitude people like you have is sickening.
  - relativ575 2y ago
    You are very hostile in this thread. The GP didn't say anywhere that it was ok for people to be uninsured. Neither did they say they were among the 55% figure. Secondly, it's easy to find some official figures - [0] From January through June 2023, among people of all ages, 7.4% were uninsured, 40.7% had public coverage, and 60.8% had private coverage at the time of interview And: The percentage of adults who were uninsured decreased from 14.7% in 2019 to 10.7% in the first 6 months of 2023. Public coverage increased from 2019 (20.4%) through the first 6 months of 2023 (23.6%). No significant trend in private coverage was observed between 2019 (66.8%) and the first 6 months of 2023 (67.7%) In other words, the majority of people in the US (> 90%) have insurance -- private, public, or both. [0] - https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhis/earlyrelease/insur202312.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhis/earlyrelease/insur202312....
- ojbyrne 2y ago
  In my experience in the US,”employer-provided” is not the same as “fully paid for by my employer.” Generally there is an employee-paid portion of the monthly premiums.
ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
That is true. It's just not clear to me that we need a system where everyone has "free" (taxpayer-funded) healthcare.
- spzb 2y ago
  Maybe you should ask the people who currently aren't covered if it's a good idea
- Ekaros 2y ago
  So why not make everyone pay full economic cost? Ban employers from giving out insurance. Make everyone pay for their own fully.

IOT_Apprentice 2y ago

I’d wager you have a copay, a deductible and a maximum amount your plan will cover. And if you are laid off you have nothing unless you sign up for COBRA which charges huge amounts monthly. The European single payer systems are underfunded intentionally by “conservatives” who want to skim off the top by privatization and loath offering it to the poor & working class.

aidenn0 2y ago

I don't really follow European health-care policies, but the friends of mine who do seem to think public health care with a private-option (e.g. France) is better than single-payer. I've also heard that the German system works reasonably well, which is also not a single-payer system.