10 ms·

bet this will do wonders for the country with literally the lowest fertility rate in the world some cultures really have a death wish

moffkalast 2y ago
"Sure our country collapsed, but for a moment we made great profits for the shareholders."
- boxed 2y ago
  Not even that, they'll just have full offices.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Greece is doing the same. Capitalism is not going to reconfigure itself pleasantly as the productive labor cohort perpetually compresses. https://www.npr.org/2024/07/05/nx-s1-5027839/greece-six-day-workweek-law https://www.npr.org/2024/07/05/nx-s1-5027839/greece-six-day-... https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/01/greece-introduces-growth-oriented-six-day-working-week https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/01/greece...
- ordinaryradical 2y ago
  The irony here being that if you have more free time and more social safety net, having more kids becomes easier, hence you grow your consumer market and labor force. I wonder what a 4-day work week would do to birth rates… Maybe falling fertility is the true capitalist death spiral?
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    Aren't they being crushed by social welfare costs though, at the end of the day? It's not a 1-dimensional thing. Expensive pensions, healthcare etc extracted from the working age population.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      How can you not be crushed by social welfare costs if your population is not constantly growing (which is impossible in a finite system, but most especially when women are empowered to not have children they don't want)?
      - logicchains 2y ago
        If you have a savings-based pension system like Australian superannuation, where the elderly live off the interest on their savings, not off wealth transfers from working people.
        toomuchtodo 2y ago
        Whether investment gains or direct payment transfers, the old are still living off the young, it is simply which Rube Goldberg design it is. Someone is being productive (young), and someone else (old) is gaining from them by some shared delusion economic accounting claim. Doesn't matter if those are investment gains in a capital market allocation system or direct wage tax transfers to social payments. Neither system works if the old don't have enough young to squeeze, hence the panic over the rapidly falling fertility rate and population decline: there will be, for at least the next 100 years, many less young productive people to dump the debts of today on (regardless of the accounting mechanism). https://www.ceda.com.au/newsandresources/news/tax-superannuation/super-system-not-adequate-for-the-future https://www.ceda.com.au/newsandresources/news/tax-superannua... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-02/blackrock-uk-envy-australia-s-pensions-but-retirees-still-worry https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-02/blackrock... https://www.moneymag.com.au/aussies-not-enough-superannuation https://www.moneymag.com.au/aussies-not-enough-superannuatio...
        throwuxiytayq 2y ago
        Having savings allows old people to assert ownership over a larger part of the economy, but it doesn't prevent the economy from shrinking. The amount of wealth produced depends on the amount of people doing the producing. In an economy without working age people, there is nothing for the elderly to buy.
nope1000 2y ago
Hard to find the correlation imo. We (in developed nations) have more free time than ever and birth rates are still dropping.

moffkalast 2y ago

"Sure our country collapsed, but for a moment we made great profits for the shareholders."

boxed 2y ago
Not even that, they'll just have full offices.

toomuchtodo 2y ago

Greece is doing the same. Capitalism is not going to reconfigure itself pleasantly as the productive labor cohort perpetually compresses. https://www.npr.org/2024/07/05/nx-s1-5027839/greece-six-day-workweek-law https://www.npr.org/2024/07/05/nx-s1-5027839/greece-six-day-... https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/01/greece-introduces-growth-oriented-six-day-working-week https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/01/greece...

ordinaryradical 2y ago
The irony here being that if you have more free time and more social safety net, having more kids becomes easier, hence you grow your consumer market and labor force. I wonder what a 4-day work week would do to birth rates… Maybe falling fertility is the true capitalist death spiral?
- HPsquared 2y ago
  Aren't they being crushed by social welfare costs though, at the end of the day? It's not a 1-dimensional thing. Expensive pensions, healthcare etc extracted from the working age population.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    How can you not be crushed by social welfare costs if your population is not constantly growing (which is impossible in a finite system, but most especially when women are empowered to not have children they don't want)?
    - logicchains 2y ago
      If you have a savings-based pension system like Australian superannuation, where the elderly live off the interest on their savings, not off wealth transfers from working people.
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        Whether investment gains or direct payment transfers, the old are still living off the young, it is simply which Rube Goldberg design it is. Someone is being productive (young), and someone else (old) is gaining from them by some shared delusion economic accounting claim. Doesn't matter if those are investment gains in a capital market allocation system or direct wage tax transfers to social payments. Neither system works if the old don't have enough young to squeeze, hence the panic over the rapidly falling fertility rate and population decline: there will be, for at least the next 100 years, many less young productive people to dump the debts of today on (regardless of the accounting mechanism). https://www.ceda.com.au/newsandresources/news/tax-superannuation/super-system-not-adequate-for-the-future https://www.ceda.com.au/newsandresources/news/tax-superannua... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-02/blackrock-uk-envy-australia-s-pensions-but-retirees-still-worry https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-05-02/blackrock... https://www.moneymag.com.au/aussies-not-enough-superannuation https://www.moneymag.com.au/aussies-not-enough-superannuatio...
      - throwuxiytayq 2y ago
        Having savings allows old people to assert ownership over a larger part of the economy, but it doesn't prevent the economy from shrinking. The amount of wealth produced depends on the amount of people doing the producing. In an economy without working age people, there is nothing for the elderly to buy.

nope1000 2y ago

Hard to find the correlation imo. We (in developed nations) have more free time than ever and birth rates are still dropping.