4 ms·

Why are government employees allowed to accept gifts? I work in tech and am not allowed to accept gifts over $50, neither is my partner who is a nurse.

by soared 2y ago

markus92 2y ago
Same here, as employee at a Dutch semi-government institution. €50 is the max we're allowed to take with manager approval.
- shiandow 2y ago
  How much are you allowed to take without manager approval?
  - markus92 2y ago
    Zero.
ceejayoz 2y ago
> Why are government employees allowed to accept gifts? These are "elected public officials". They are technically not "government employees".
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > These are "elected public officials". They are technically not "government employees" Which subjects them to a $590 limit [1]. [1] https://www.fppc.ca.gov/learn/public-officials-and-employees-rules-/gifts-and-honoraria.html https://www.fppc.ca.gov/learn/public-officials-and-employees...
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    Which the article notes was respected, at least in theory.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Which the article notes was respected, at least in theory Not really. The article notes that’s what the elected claims in a filing. Unfortunately, Reuters didn’t attempt to value the ticket.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        > The article notes that’s what the elected claims in a filing. Yes, that's the "in theory" bit.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > that's the "in theory" bit But it’s not. If I lie on my tax filing, I’m not respecting the law, in practice or in theory.
        buran77 2y ago
        > The article notes that’s what the elected claims in a filing. Unfortunately, Reuters didn’t attempt to value the ticket. > If I lie on my tax filing But what if you don't lie? Do we know the real value of those tickets and if realistically it's close enough to the nominal value to consider the rule was respected at least on paper? Not that I put too much faith in "politicians", or in the ethics rules around them but at the very least leave some room for uncertainty in there. Those rules and the ethics training people go through are not for the people who are most likely to need them. They're the ethics equivalent of homeopathy. Look also at leaders who very visibly receive "gifts" and then in an impossibly long string of coincidences the trail of evidence is destroyed (see Ursula von der Leyen). Others are actual as-deternmined-by-a-judge criminals but still hold leadership positions in the field they committed the crime in (Christine Lagarde). If they don't get the ticket, a family member will. Or they'll win it in a raffle they never knew they participated in. There's a never ending list of ways to not illegally circumvent any of these rules.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  - HarryHirsch 2y ago
    That limit is likely intentional, given that even small gifts elicit positive feelings. Honni qui mal y pense.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Fine, why do they not have ethics training so they recognize these conflicts of interest?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bluGill 2y ago
There are a lot of ways to hide a gift. Every few years my company makes me take an hour training on all the different ways someone can hide a gift so that I don't accidentally take one thinking it is harmless.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
michaelt 2y ago
The thin end of the wedge is that you're a senator and the local gravel quarry in your home state invites you for a tour. They just want you to see how safe, low-noise and eco-friendly their operation is, and how many well paid jobs they've created for the people you represent. Nobody's likely to say this is corruption, because nobody is envious of your exclusive tour of a gravel quarry. Once it's established that that's not corruption - there will be some travel expenses. Can they have someone pick you up and drive you to the mine? Pay for your stay in a local hotel? Can it be a good hotel? Now what if instead of a quarry, an entertainment venue would like to give you a tour?
- euroderf 2y ago
  In the old days these were called "junkets".
legitster 2y ago
Individuals might have small gift amounts, but the office itself might accept gifts and distribute them accordingly. Your partner may not be able to accept $50, but their hospital absolutely would accept a check for $51 million.
5555624 2y ago
federal (government) employees may except non-cash gifts of less than $20, per occasion, for a total of $50 in a calendar year from a single source. Cash it no permitted. As is usually the case, different laws apply to Congress and the Senate. I believe it's $100 for House members and $250 for senators. of course, there are also political "donations."

Why are government employees allowed to accept gifts? I work in tech and am not allowed to accept gifts over $50, neither is my partner who is a nurse.

by soared 2y ago

Why are government employees allowed to accept gifts? I work in tech and am not allowed to accept gifts over $50, neither is my partner who is a nurse.

markus92 2y ago

Same here, as employee at a Dutch semi-government institution. €50 is the max we're allowed to take with manager approval.

shiandow 2y ago
How much are you allowed to take without manager approval?
- markus92 2y ago
  Zero.

ceejayoz 2y ago

> Why are government employees allowed to accept gifts? These are "elected public officials". They are technically not "government employees".

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> These are "elected public officials". They are technically not "government employees" Which subjects them to a $590 limit [1]. [1] https://www.fppc.ca.gov/learn/public-officials-and-employees-rules-/gifts-and-honoraria.html https://www.fppc.ca.gov/learn/public-officials-and-employees...
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Which the article notes was respected, at least in theory.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Which the article notes was respected, at least in theory Not really. The article notes that’s what the elected claims in a filing. Unfortunately, Reuters didn’t attempt to value the ticket.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > The article notes that’s what the elected claims in a filing. Yes, that's the "in theory" bit.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > that's the "in theory" bit But it’s not. If I lie on my tax filing, I’m not respecting the law, in practice or in theory.
        buran77 2y ago
        > The article notes that’s what the elected claims in a filing. Unfortunately, Reuters didn’t attempt to value the ticket. > If I lie on my tax filing But what if you don't lie? Do we know the real value of those tickets and if realistically it's close enough to the nominal value to consider the rule was respected at least on paper? Not that I put too much faith in "politicians", or in the ethics rules around them but at the very least leave some room for uncertainty in there. Those rules and the ethics training people go through are not for the people who are most likely to need them. They're the ethics equivalent of homeopathy. Look also at leaders who very visibly receive "gifts" and then in an impossibly long string of coincidences the trail of evidence is destroyed (see Ursula von der Leyen). Others are actual as-deternmined-by-a-judge criminals but still hold leadership positions in the field they committed the crime in (Christine Lagarde). If they don't get the ticket, a family member will. Or they'll win it in a raffle they never knew they participated in. There's a never ending list of ways to not illegally circumvent any of these rules.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
- HarryHirsch 2y ago
  That limit is likely intentional, given that even small gifts elicit positive feelings. Honni qui mal y pense.
bluGill 2y ago
Fine, why do they not have ethics training so they recognize these conflicts of interest?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

bluGill 2y ago

There are a lot of ways to hide a gift. Every few years my company makes me take an hour training on all the different ways someone can hide a gift so that I don't accidentally take one thinking it is harmless.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

michaelt 2y ago

The thin end of the wedge is that you're a senator and the local gravel quarry in your home state invites you for a tour. They just want you to see how safe, low-noise and eco-friendly their operation is, and how many well paid jobs they've created for the people you represent. Nobody's likely to say this is corruption, because nobody is envious of your exclusive tour of a gravel quarry. Once it's established that that's not corruption - there will be some travel expenses. Can they have someone pick you up and drive you to the mine? Pay for your stay in a local hotel? Can it be a good hotel? Now what if instead of a quarry, an entertainment venue would like to give you a tour?

euroderf 2y ago
In the old days these were called "junkets".

legitster 2y ago

Individuals might have small gift amounts, but the office itself might accept gifts and distribute them accordingly. Your partner may not be able to accept $50, but their hospital absolutely would accept a check for $51 million.

5555624 2y ago

federal (government) employees may except non-cash gifts of less than $20, per occasion, for a total of $50 in a calendar year from a single source. Cash it no permitted. As is usually the case, different laws apply to Congress and the Senate. I believe it's $100 for House members and $250 for senators. of course, there are also political "donations."