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My favorite play is the Herakles of Euripides, which ends on these lines: The man who would prefer great wealth or strength more than love, more than

My favorite play is the Herakles of Euripides, which ends on these lines: The man who would prefer great wealth or strength more than love, more than friends is diseased of soul

infotainment 2y ago
Wow, some things never change!
- debacle 2y ago
  If you are a student of history, you realize that human nature has always been a constant. We should teach kids in K-12 "Most people are crap, but some of the crap people did amazing things and there were also a few non-crap people out there, of varying impact."
  - doctorwho42 2y ago
    And that you should strive to be a non-crap person because it is a valuable trait.
    - lukan 2y ago
      I guess allmost everyone tries that - it is just that our definition of "crap people" is quite different.
      - nyokodo 2y ago
        > everyone tries that They don’t really. People try and fit in publicly so that they’re seen to be good by their group, whereas fitting in to any group at any level in any age requires accepting some things that you know are bad and when things aren’t visible people commonly indulge in a lot of bad that even their group would publicly object to often with the moral license they feel they’ve earned from the performative good they do in public. Being a truly good person by our own standards is hard to the point of almost being impossible.
        lukan 2y ago
        "Being a truly good person by our own standards is hard to the point of almost being impossible." My favorite trope, the snark knight. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSnarkKnight https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSnarkKnight Still, I don't think it is impossible. It just depends on the standards one sets. Some seem to be doing fine, being assholes. But I also suffer from setting my standards impossible high. But I cannot really change them without giving up myself.
        nyokodo 2y ago
        > I don't think it is impossible I agree. I said "almost impossible." > the snark knight This isn't snark, or self-righteousness. This view on humanity is merely a realization most religions and cultures have come to understand across human history. > Some seem to be doing fine, being assholes Even if their standards are incredibly low I wager they are failing at them all the time, and if they don't admit it then they are lying to save face, lying to themselves, and making excuses.
        adolph 2y ago
        >> everyone tries [to be a non-crap person] > People try and fit in publicly so that they’re seen to be good by their group These statements are not in disagreement. “People who live in society have learnt how to see themselves, in mirrors, as they appear to their friends.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea [0] > requires accepting some things that you know are bad Light is the head that accepts one's own doing as "bad." Moreoften I think people face inner resistance stemming from the cognitive dissonance between the unknowable "own standards" and the very legible external standards.[1, 2] 0. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/548471-people-who-live-in-society-have-learnt-how-to-see https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/548471-people-who-live-in-s... 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology) 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameral_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameral_mentality
    - debacle 2y ago
      Crap people with initiative have done more good for the world that the non-crap people ever will.
  - psychoslave 2y ago
    Let's remember that at least half of what is to be contemplated lies in those who are judging what they see. I wouldn't be that quick to misjudge individuals by the prisme of shallow knowledge provided by history at whole societies scale.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    One of the biggest reasons I love Shakespeare (and other older literature) is that it really highlights how human nature hasn't changed. The good and bad of mankind, as well as the struggles we face, are largely the same as they were centuries ago. It really makes me feel a kinship with these people who died long before I was born, to know that they had to face the same kind of insecurities and challenges I do today.
_a_a_a_ 2y ago
"Money can't buy you love but it lets you rent it by the hour" – Max Headroom (from memory)
- maCDzP 2y ago
  I was born after Max Headroom aired, but for those of you that saw it while it aired, how was it?
  - yanowitz 2y ago
    Absolutely amazing. American TV was a desolate landscape with occasional stuff so good you couldn’t believe the oasis wasn’t a mirage. Max Headroom was in that category. And of course it didn’t start in the States. Dunno if it would hold up today though
    - jl6 2y ago
      Your description of American TV certainly holds up today.
    - settsu 2y ago
      Personally, I don't think it has to hold up. At least not necessarily in the way that this is generally meant, i.e., a timeless classic that more or less transcends the historical context that produced it and, probably most importantly, does not require the audience to know or grasp that historical context to appreciate it (even if understanding the context would add to the appreciation.) However that doesn't mean it can be no less entertaining and interesting, just that it probably requires some context. This isn't an uncommon issue for popular media which, by definition, is a product of and for its time. Humor/comedy is especially notable for this. In my experience, very little comedy is truly timeless. However, relevance can of course resurge (and I would make a distinction from more cyclical trends as is seen in fashion, for example.) And thus I'd say Max Headroom was very much a product of its time and, aside from "ha-ha-old-tech!", you'd most likely need to have at least some knowledge of the social and political landscapes of the time to understand what and who it was satirizing. But also, sometimes—often?—it's just capitalizing on the cultural moment.

My favorite play is the Herakles of Euripides, which ends on these lines: The man who would prefer great wealth or strength more than love, more than friends is diseased of soul

infotainment 2y ago

Wow, some things never change!

debacle 2y ago
If you are a student of history, you realize that human nature has always been a constant. We should teach kids in K-12 "Most people are crap, but some of the crap people did amazing things and there were also a few non-crap people out there, of varying impact."
- doctorwho42 2y ago
  And that you should strive to be a non-crap person because it is a valuable trait.
  - lukan 2y ago
    I guess allmost everyone tries that - it is just that our definition of "crap people" is quite different.
    - nyokodo 2y ago
      > everyone tries that They don’t really. People try and fit in publicly so that they’re seen to be good by their group, whereas fitting in to any group at any level in any age requires accepting some things that you know are bad and when things aren’t visible people commonly indulge in a lot of bad that even their group would publicly object to often with the moral license they feel they’ve earned from the performative good they do in public. Being a truly good person by our own standards is hard to the point of almost being impossible.
      - lukan 2y ago
        "Being a truly good person by our own standards is hard to the point of almost being impossible." My favorite trope, the snark knight. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSnarkKnight https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSnarkKnight Still, I don't think it is impossible. It just depends on the standards one sets. Some seem to be doing fine, being assholes. But I also suffer from setting my standards impossible high. But I cannot really change them without giving up myself.
        nyokodo 2y ago
        > I don't think it is impossible I agree. I said "almost impossible." > the snark knight This isn't snark, or self-righteousness. This view on humanity is merely a realization most religions and cultures have come to understand across human history. > Some seem to be doing fine, being assholes Even if their standards are incredibly low I wager they are failing at them all the time, and if they don't admit it then they are lying to save face, lying to themselves, and making excuses.
      - adolph 2y ago
        >> everyone tries [to be a non-crap person] > People try and fit in publicly so that they’re seen to be good by their group These statements are not in disagreement. “People who live in society have learnt how to see themselves, in mirrors, as they appear to their friends.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre, Nausea [0] > requires accepting some things that you know are bad Light is the head that accepts one's own doing as "bad." Moreoften I think people face inner resistance stemming from the cognitive dissonance between the unknowable "own standards" and the very legible external standards.[1, 2] 0. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/548471-people-who-live-in-society-have-learnt-how-to-see https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/548471-people-who-live-in-s... 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology) 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameral_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameral_mentality
  - debacle 2y ago
    Crap people with initiative have done more good for the world that the non-crap people ever will.
- psychoslave 2y ago
  Let's remember that at least half of what is to be contemplated lies in those who are judging what they see. I wouldn't be that quick to misjudge individuals by the prisme of shallow knowledge provided by history at whole societies scale.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  One of the biggest reasons I love Shakespeare (and other older literature) is that it really highlights how human nature hasn't changed. The good and bad of mankind, as well as the struggles we face, are largely the same as they were centuries ago. It really makes me feel a kinship with these people who died long before I was born, to know that they had to face the same kind of insecurities and challenges I do today.

_a_a_a_ 2y ago

"Money can't buy you love but it lets you rent it by the hour" – Max Headroom (from memory)

maCDzP 2y ago
I was born after Max Headroom aired, but for those of you that saw it while it aired, how was it?
- yanowitz 2y ago
  Absolutely amazing. American TV was a desolate landscape with occasional stuff so good you couldn’t believe the oasis wasn’t a mirage. Max Headroom was in that category. And of course it didn’t start in the States. Dunno if it would hold up today though
  - jl6 2y ago
    Your description of American TV certainly holds up today.
  - settsu 2y ago
    Personally, I don't think it has to hold up. At least not necessarily in the way that this is generally meant, i.e., a timeless classic that more or less transcends the historical context that produced it and, probably most importantly, does not require the audience to know or grasp that historical context to appreciate it (even if understanding the context would add to the appreciation.) However that doesn't mean it can be no less entertaining and interesting, just that it probably requires some context. This isn't an uncommon issue for popular media which, by definition, is a product of and for its time. Humor/comedy is especially notable for this. In my experience, very little comedy is truly timeless. However, relevance can of course resurge (and I would make a distinction from more cyclical trends as is seen in fashion, for example.) And thus I'd say Max Headroom was very much a product of its time and, aside from "ha-ha-old-tech!", you'd most likely need to have at least some knowledge of the social and political landscapes of the time to understand what and who it was satirizing. But also, sometimes—often?—it's just capitalizing on the cultural moment.