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The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The subset of people who want to really tinker inside their machines is vastly outweighed by people who want a very lightweight machine, so offering the "lightweight" option is a no-brainer. The lack of a upgradable machines as an option is presumably beause they've done the maths and realised that the number of people who choose that won't warrant the costs of maintaining the product line; viz. the death of the 17" Macbook LapCrusher(tm). There was a comment (I think here) yesterday that said, effectively, "Upgradability was a defect of technology not being 'good enough' for long periods". These days, the stock specs of the Macbook Retina will be fine for even power users for years; almost certainly the life of a laptop. The tiny group of "super power users" are those likely to just upgrade their laptops every couple of years anyway.

moystard 14y ago
That's not the only point mentioned in this article. You are forgetting about two aspects: - Environment: Gluing glass and aluminum most probably forbid recycling both of them, that's just a waste. - Cost of repairing: While with previous models, any of us could replace some part of his laptops easily (to repair as well as to upgrade), that won't be possible anymore. That means that it will cost tons of money to customers (Apple Care becomes mandatory), and that the ecological impact will be even greater, see 1. I am currently thinking about changing my current MBP June 2009, and as the author of the article states, I have to make a choice, and that choice will probably participate to drawing the future of laptops.
- stcredzero 14y ago
  Gluing glass and aluminum most probably forbid recycling both of them, that's just a waste. I doubt that's an insurmountable technical hurdle. Apple should take the machines back at the Apple store, though, and they should handle the separation.
  - spiralpolitik 14y ago
    Apple has a very good and easy to use recycling program. They send you a shipping label, you walk into any FedEx and mail it to them. Simples. These days they even give you a gift card if the machine has any value. The Apple stores accept smaller Apple products for recycling like batteries and iPods. I suspect they don't accept the larger items due to local laws on toxic waste management. So really there isn't any excuse not to recycle your Apple product at EOL if you so desire.
  - lukeschlather 14y ago
    You have to weigh the results of separating the glass vs. the problems with throwing away the glass. If the process leaves 5 gallons of toxic water and requires $5 of solvent, is it more economical or more environmentally sound to use the process or just throw away the screen?
- gnaffle 14y ago
  The glue is designed to come apart, especially when heated. I'd understand you if they used expoxy resin or something like that, but that's not the case. Also, Apple has an incentive to make them recyclable since they offer a free recycling programme. My biggest concern is the RAM, both because I've had RAM failures before which now becomes a motherboard swap, and because I'd rather max out the RAM later when it's cheap.
  - nkassis 14y ago
    Yeah it's always has been cheaper to buy the ram separately from Apple who seriously overcharges for it. I guess they just closed that "loophole" in their scheme. I'm concerned about the battery. Those things don't last as long as they are claimed. I have a new one in my late 2008 MacBook pro right now.
    - nkohari 14y ago
      They also reduced to the price of 16GB of RAM from $800 to $200.
      - 5teev 14y ago
        Apple has in the past charged outrageous prices for RAM upgrades, but lately has come more in line with aftermarket prices if you factor in what you might consider an installation or "convenience" fee.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    Have your RAM failures been with the RAM Apple includes, or with third-party RAM you installed yourself? If it was the latter, that's almost an argument for Apple's decision.
  - stan_rogers 14y ago
    Just an FYI here: heating epoxy (sufficiently) will overcure it and make it removable (it'll puff up like popcorn, and becomes very brittle and weak). I can't swear to the current state of the art, but using epoxy as a conformal coating to exclude environmental influences and thermally stabilize a populated circuit board was pretty standard military/aerospace practice in my day, and one could use standard soldering tools to drill down to the components for replacement/repair.
- moystard 14y ago
  Mea culpa for the recycling part then. I think the upgrade point is still huge: The MBP 2009 that I mention in my previous post has been upgraded twice (RAM and HD). That has allowed me to keep it for three years and in my opinion has justified spending that amount of money in a laptop (2000 euros at that time). I don't know if I would put the same amount if I knew I could not upgrade it.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    I don't know if the European Apple-tax makes this tenable, but I just sell my MBP on EBay every year or two. A 16-month old MBP 13.3" is selling for about 70% of its original price on EBay. If you do this three times in four years, you'll have paid about as much as the original price of the machine, for about as long as you were going to keep the machine anyway, but will get little upgrades over time as Apple upgrades that model #.
    - vacri 14y ago
      Plus the labour cost of setting up each new machine and transferring your gear, plus the labour costs of posting and selling the old unit.
- maxerickson 14y ago
  Increasingly disposable electronics aren't any great positive for the environment, but they are hardly high up on the list of negatives.
- keeperofdakeys 14y ago
  The old MBP line still exists, if anything this new MBP is like a new line. However, as this article describes, how well this new MBP ships will probably somewhat determine the future of the original line.
- tlb 14y ago
  The material recycling value is very, very small in any case. A beer can as 15g of aluminum, and the MBP has maybe 300g. So the same aluminum as 20 cans of beer. The respective economic value is orders of magnitude different.
gnaffle 14y ago
I've maxed out the ram, added an SSD _and_ added the biggest SATA drive I could find and fit it in the DVD tray using an adapter from iFixit. My laptop is from 2007 and it feels like a speed demon with the SSD and still can store all my media. So now, I have the option of maxing out the hardware _hoping_ that it will last me many years. That's part of buying into a closed platform _and_ belonging to a niche of consumers.
- adolph 14y ago
  As someone who keeps and upgrades, I appreciate what you are saying. Is the profitably addressable market of keeper-upgraders large enough to justify laptops made larger by interconnects?
  - gnaffle 14y ago
    Probably not, at least not for Apple. A large part of their profit margin comes from making only very few models that share commonality in parts. Nobody is screaming for an optical drive either, so I suspect that the old unibody laptops will only be kept around for 1-2 years until demand decreases. There's bound to be other companies that will cater to that market, but they won't be able to ship OSX on their laptops.
- mirkules 14y ago
  Is this the 2007 MBP you have? I would love to know the details of your upgrades because I have an '07 17" MBP that needs a refresher. Specifically the amount of RAM you have (I thought 4GB was the max) and the SDD?
  - epochwolf 14y ago
    I have an early 2008 MBP, the max supported ram is 4gb. I haven't been able to find anyone that says otherwise.
    - ffi 14y ago
      I've got 8GB of RAM in my Late 2008 MBP (MacBookPro5,1) http://blog.macsales.com/9102-secret-firmware-lets-late-08-macbooks-use-8gb http://blog.macsales.com/9102-secret-firmware-lets-late-08-m... Looks like this won't fly in the Early 2008 MBP, but you might be able to get 6GB in there (note "Standard RAM"): http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-2-duo-2.4-15-early-2008-penryn-specs.html http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macb...
georgespencer 14y ago
> Upgradability was a defect of technology not being good enough for long periods The other thing to consider is that the same applies to repairing technology. Why are we putting resource into catering for the tiny minority of a given product which experience mechanical failures which we can fix? 90% of BlackBerry users will never change the battery on their device. 100% of BlackBerries have a stupid door on the back which allows you to remove the battery and eventually becomes very loose and slides off. 80% of MacBook Retinas (at least) will never have a hardware problem (as long as Apple has finally learned how to correctly apply thermal paste). The ones who do we replace. The economics of replacing an entire device are finally starting to make sense. That's the really exciting thing about this. It is no longer cheaper for Apple to pay technical people in stores and service centres to cater for failure rates in hardware. It is now cheaper to throw the broken thing away and get a new one, and take a chance on not having two successive one-chance-in-a-million failures for the user.
- bedris 14y ago
  90% of BlackBerry users will never change the battery on their device. 100% of BlackBerries have a stupid door on the back which allows you to remove the battery and eventually becomes very loose and slides off. True, but it was sometimes the only way you could do a hard reboot on those things!
  - georgespencer 14y ago
    Oh god don't remind me. You'd hear a notification for a text message, unlock the device and you'd see > JAVA MESSAGE ERROR Which required removing the battery to do a hard reset (which took about 120 seconds).
    - KeyBoardG 14y ago
      I used to have an auto-reboot app that scheduled hard resets to free memory and reduce crashes. So glad to be off that platform now.
      - 14y ago
raverbashing 14y ago
Yeah, but really, the thing is, the growth curve is bending down Processors have barely became faster in the last couple of years. Even a 5 year computer (with some upgrades) is good for doing what 99% of the people do today (internet) So chances are upgrades today are moot. Unless you're hitting the limits constantly like video editing, compiling software, etc
- martingordon 14y ago
  > Processors have barely became faster in the last couple of years. Funny you should mention that. I will be picking up one of the new MacBook Airs and when mulling over the 1.8 vs 2.0 GHz processors, I realized that my last three notebooks (including the new Air) have each had successively lower clock speeds while posting faster Geekbench scores. 2008 - Aluminum MacBook 2.4 GHz - 3374 2010 - MacBook Air 2.13 GHz - 3475 2012 - MacBook Air 1.8 GHz - 6398
  - Evbn 14y ago
    That's because the boards are getting more cycles in GPU and cache and things, which are more important than straightahead serial speed.
    - bnegreve 14y ago
      It's also because the power consumption is quadratic with the frequency. This is important if you agree that an additional hour on battery is worth much more than few cylces per sec.
      - gcb 14y ago
        That's why your cpu runs on different paths to save power when not needed. Using a lower cpu is just lazy and cheap.
      - Dave_Rosenthal 14y ago
        No, the first-order model is that power consumption is quadratic with voltage, and linear with frequency.
MatthewPhillips 14y ago
There is the Air line for light weight laptops for normal people. I would think that the word Pro signals that this computer is for people who want to do stuff with it beyond what is provided up front.
- padobson 14y ago
  This is the crux of the entire issue, crystalized perfectly. If you are going to carry multiple product lines, then why would their features converge? I see no reason to get into the closed vs open debate - this is Apple we're talking about. But why would they turn the Mac Book pro into a MacBook Air with higher specs? Why not get rid of all the branding distinctions and let the consumer spec out the machine, with a few default configurations for those who don't want to think about specs?
  - kamjam 14y ago
    Maybe they should rename it MacBook Air Pro? :)
  - taligent 14y ago
    What you are talking about makes absolutely no sense. There are completely different chipsets, ports, batteries etc in a MacBook Air versus a MacBook Pro. Most of which have dependencies on each other. So a user can't just spec out a machine with the exception of very specific components. Hence why they are branded differently.
    - Retric 14y ago
      MBA is thin, has a SSD, integrated battery, an no disk drive. The MB pro is almost as thin, has a SSD, integrated battery, an no disk drive and a better screen. They killed the old Mack Book Line.
    - lnanek2 14y ago
      Not to mention it costs a lot to offer configurability, rather than just ordering countless hordes of a few models from the factories...
pasbesoin 14y ago
Off the top of my head (and so, perhaps wrong), I seem to recall the amount Apple is charging for going from 8 GB to 16 GB to be on the order of US$200. [1] For RAM that they are purchasing and installing in volume. That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. And that's where I have one particular concern: Apple closing down and engorging itself on yet another market segment (upgrades). You can argue that it's their product, to do with as they please. But when they start to own entire supply chains (just how "easy" is it going to be for competitors to get retina-class displays, in a timely fashion?), well... you have to start considering the word "monopoly", even if you stick a "quasi" in front of it. They've done an excellent job with their products, and with their marketing. But there's a reason that "competition" continues to be a mantra throughout the world, one that is held by many factions of differing ideology. Over the long term, total control tends to go bad. [1] I don't know from where my memory has retained the $200 figure, but looking at Apple's web site, I see that switching from the 8 GB / 256 GB configuration to the 16 GB / 512 GB configuration takes the system price from $2199 to $2799, for a $600 difference. http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro/select http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo... Amazon has a retail Samsung 830 256 GB at $253 and a Samsung 830 512 GB at $677, for a $424 difference.
- wavephorm 14y ago
  So $424 extra for the bigger drive, and $176 for the extra ram... that sounds almost reasonable.
  - pasbesoin 14y ago
    Could someone speak to the RAM installation and the materials cost involved in the RAM upgrade? Would it be akin to going from two 4 GB "sticks" to two 8 GB sticks? I'm seeing 4 GB DDR3 DIMM's at around $23, while 8 GB DIMM prices -- a bit scant in quantity -- appear to average in the low $50's. So, say $46 versus $110, for a $64 difference? Very approximately. And I didn't look closely at bus speeds -- just very off-the-cuff.
    - ajross 14y ago
ginko 14y ago
If there was such a choice I would probably have bought it already.
user49598 14y ago
The problem isn't just for tinkerers who want to upgrade. It's also about repairs and recycling. We're voting with our wallets for hardware that can't be easily or cheaply repaired and is impossible to be recycled.
tjoff 14y ago
These days, the stock specs of the Macbook Retina will be fine for even power users for years; almost certainly the life of a laptop. When the battery dies it will be worthless as a laptop. For a power user that means you are forced to buy a replacement way sooner than you'd want. Just yet another reason for why it is so obvious that apple does mainstream hardware, the sad part is that people confuse it with quality hardware.
- ajross 14y ago
  The battery is glued in, but apparently it is replaceable via factory service. No, I don't know what that means either (maybe they replace the plastic case part with it?).
  - reneherse 14y ago
    Judicious use of a heat gun, I'm guessing, to soften the glue. Ha, wouldn't it be great if the batteries were held in place with something like those 3M Command strips, which hold fast until you pull on one edge?
- jonknee 14y ago
  Or just have the battery replaced like you can with all the other Apple products without a user replaceable battery. The Retina replacement is a little more expensive than the previous model, but it's also a larger battery.
- CJefferson 14y ago
  I think that 8GB might start to get a little tight. I have a 2 year old 4GB MacBook Pro, and had to upgrade the RAM as I found it swapping too much.
DennisP 14y ago
Further evidence that Apple has its thumb on the scale: special screws that can't be turned by readily-obtainable screwdrivers.
- MaysonL 14y ago
  >can't be turned by readily-obtainable screwdrivers $11 from newegg. Including shipping. Unlikely, however, to be readily available to an inquisitive 5-year-old, who might easily do more damage to some expensive electronics than he meant to, if he could get it open.
  - lmm 14y ago
    Oh, come off it. Have you really had a 5-year-old open your electronics? If they find a screwdriver they can stick it through the screen just as easily whichever screws Apple uses, and that seems like a more likely damage path.
    - pdehaan 14y ago
      I was a 5-year-old with a penchant for opening electronics, so I'm fairly sure they exist. However, I'd be more worried about adults doing more harm than good by taking apart/putting things back together in an attempt to 'fix' it before going to someone that knows what they're doing. Also, many people ignore that most of those crazy looking screw drives also have benefits such as better cam-out resistance.
      - mikeash 14y ago
        Things like torx have such benefits, but does Apple's crazy pentalobe nonsense really have any benefits besides being uncommon?
    - niels_olson 14y ago
      yes, and yes, here's a picture of my XO-1 that went viral http://gizmodo.com/373124/kids-are-tearing-apart-the-olpc-laptops-keyboard-rather-easily http://gizmodo.com/373124/kids-are-tearing-apart-the-olpc-la...
falling 14y ago
> The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Well, the point of the article is that there was a choice between the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro, and the outcome of that choice resulted in the current evolution. He is saying wouldn’t like that choice made again.
easp 14y ago
I suspect that the entry level Retina pro is only as "cheap" as it is because Apple is assure of capturing all the upgrade revenue. Further, if they were offering an upgradable model in addition to the current retina option, in addition to the existing model, they'd both be more expensive than if only one was offered, because the screen supply is constrained, and with the market split, the volumes on the thin/light model would be lower.
ScottBurson 14y ago
the death of the 17" Macbook LapCrusher(tm) Huh. I love my 17" MBP. In fact I bought my third one a year ago... and now I'm particularly glad I did. I'll have to see how many years I can get out of this one... 7 or 8, maybe.
Ralith 14y ago
> These days, the stock specs of the Macbook Retina will be fine for even power users for years; almost certainly the life of a laptop A challenge which is much more easily met when the life of the laptop is limited by design.
charlieok 14y ago
What won't be good for years is the battery...
lsc 14y ago
>There was a comment (I think here) yesterday that said, effectively, "Upgradability was a defect of technology not being 'good enough' for long periods". eh I think that comment is missing the real lifecycle of tech. First, it goes to the mac users. People that are willing to pay a large premium for something super stylish that they don't have to screw with. These people don't want to upgrade; that defeats the whole point of paying extra so they don't have to screw with it. Two to three years down the road, the hardware gets discarded by the 'my bicycle has no flywheel' set and ends up with one of my people. At that point, it matters that we can't upgrade the ram or the disk, as there are going to be dramatically better parts at that point. Of course, apple doesn't care; I mean, I'm sure apple bears us no ill-will, but apple has no reason to go out of their way to make our lives easier. We're not going to spend that kind of scratch on a laptop. You see the same thing with electric and hybrid vehicles; Their batteries are out of warranty and will be completely useless around the time that they drop into the price range where I'd consider buying them; and a new battery pack kicks them out of my price range again. But why would Tesla or Toyota care? I'm not going to buy a new car from them. (of course, like I said, manufacturers of high-end new stuff have no reason to care about 'my people' - so eh, from the manufacturer's standpoint, you are correct, but there is a whole ecosystem of scavengers that will be disappointed by this trend.)

moystard 14y ago

That's not the only point mentioned in this article. You are forgetting about two aspects: - Environment: Gluing glass and aluminum most probably forbid recycling both of them, that's just a waste. - Cost of repairing: While with previous models, any of us could replace some part of his laptops easily (to repair as well as to upgrade), that won't be possible anymore. That means that it will cost tons of money to customers (Apple Care becomes mandatory), and that the ecological impact will be even greater, see 1. I am currently thinking about changing my current MBP June 2009, and as the author of the article states, I have to make a choice, and that choice will probably participate to drawing the future of laptops.

stcredzero 14y ago
Gluing glass and aluminum most probably forbid recycling both of them, that's just a waste. I doubt that's an insurmountable technical hurdle. Apple should take the machines back at the Apple store, though, and they should handle the separation.
- spiralpolitik 14y ago
  Apple has a very good and easy to use recycling program. They send you a shipping label, you walk into any FedEx and mail it to them. Simples. These days they even give you a gift card if the machine has any value. The Apple stores accept smaller Apple products for recycling like batteries and iPods. I suspect they don't accept the larger items due to local laws on toxic waste management. So really there isn't any excuse not to recycle your Apple product at EOL if you so desire.
- lukeschlather 14y ago
  You have to weigh the results of separating the glass vs. the problems with throwing away the glass. If the process leaves 5 gallons of toxic water and requires $5 of solvent, is it more economical or more environmentally sound to use the process or just throw away the screen?
gnaffle 14y ago
The glue is designed to come apart, especially when heated. I'd understand you if they used expoxy resin or something like that, but that's not the case. Also, Apple has an incentive to make them recyclable since they offer a free recycling programme. My biggest concern is the RAM, both because I've had RAM failures before which now becomes a motherboard swap, and because I'd rather max out the RAM later when it's cheap.
- nkassis 14y ago
  Yeah it's always has been cheaper to buy the ram separately from Apple who seriously overcharges for it. I guess they just closed that "loophole" in their scheme. I'm concerned about the battery. Those things don't last as long as they are claimed. I have a new one in my late 2008 MacBook pro right now.
  - nkohari 14y ago
    They also reduced to the price of 16GB of RAM from $800 to $200.
    - 5teev 14y ago
      Apple has in the past charged outrageous prices for RAM upgrades, but lately has come more in line with aftermarket prices if you factor in what you might consider an installation or "convenience" fee.
- philwelch 14y ago
  Have your RAM failures been with the RAM Apple includes, or with third-party RAM you installed yourself? If it was the latter, that's almost an argument for Apple's decision.
- stan_rogers 14y ago
  Just an FYI here: heating epoxy (sufficiently) will overcure it and make it removable (it'll puff up like popcorn, and becomes very brittle and weak). I can't swear to the current state of the art, but using epoxy as a conformal coating to exclude environmental influences and thermally stabilize a populated circuit board was pretty standard military/aerospace practice in my day, and one could use standard soldering tools to drill down to the components for replacement/repair.
moystard 14y ago
Mea culpa for the recycling part then. I think the upgrade point is still huge: The MBP 2009 that I mention in my previous post has been upgraded twice (RAM and HD). That has allowed me to keep it for three years and in my opinion has justified spending that amount of money in a laptop (2000 euros at that time). I don't know if I would put the same amount if I knew I could not upgrade it.
- rayiner 14y ago
  I don't know if the European Apple-tax makes this tenable, but I just sell my MBP on EBay every year or two. A 16-month old MBP 13.3" is selling for about 70% of its original price on EBay. If you do this three times in four years, you'll have paid about as much as the original price of the machine, for about as long as you were going to keep the machine anyway, but will get little upgrades over time as Apple upgrades that model #.
  - vacri 14y ago
    Plus the labour cost of setting up each new machine and transferring your gear, plus the labour costs of posting and selling the old unit.
maxerickson 14y ago
Increasingly disposable electronics aren't any great positive for the environment, but they are hardly high up on the list of negatives.
keeperofdakeys 14y ago
The old MBP line still exists, if anything this new MBP is like a new line. However, as this article describes, how well this new MBP ships will probably somewhat determine the future of the original line.
tlb 14y ago
The material recycling value is very, very small in any case. A beer can as 15g of aluminum, and the MBP has maybe 300g. So the same aluminum as 20 cans of beer. The respective economic value is orders of magnitude different.

gnaffle 14y ago

I've maxed out the ram, added an SSD _and_ added the biggest SATA drive I could find and fit it in the DVD tray using an adapter from iFixit. My laptop is from 2007 and it feels like a speed demon with the SSD and still can store all my media. So now, I have the option of maxing out the hardware _hoping_ that it will last me many years. That's part of buying into a closed platform _and_ belonging to a niche of consumers.

adolph 14y ago
As someone who keeps and upgrades, I appreciate what you are saying. Is the profitably addressable market of keeper-upgraders large enough to justify laptops made larger by interconnects?
- gnaffle 14y ago
  Probably not, at least not for Apple. A large part of their profit margin comes from making only very few models that share commonality in parts. Nobody is screaming for an optical drive either, so I suspect that the old unibody laptops will only be kept around for 1-2 years until demand decreases. There's bound to be other companies that will cater to that market, but they won't be able to ship OSX on their laptops.
mirkules 14y ago
Is this the 2007 MBP you have? I would love to know the details of your upgrades because I have an '07 17" MBP that needs a refresher. Specifically the amount of RAM you have (I thought 4GB was the max) and the SDD?
- epochwolf 14y ago
  I have an early 2008 MBP, the max supported ram is 4gb. I haven't been able to find anyone that says otherwise.
  - ffi 14y ago
    I've got 8GB of RAM in my Late 2008 MBP (MacBookPro5,1) http://blog.macsales.com/9102-secret-firmware-lets-late-08-macbooks-use-8gb http://blog.macsales.com/9102-secret-firmware-lets-late-08-m... Looks like this won't fly in the Early 2008 MBP, but you might be able to get 6GB in there (note "Standard RAM"): http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-2-duo-2.4-15-early-2008-penryn-specs.html http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macb...

georgespencer 14y ago

> Upgradability was a defect of technology not being good enough for long periods The other thing to consider is that the same applies to repairing technology. Why are we putting resource into catering for the tiny minority of a given product which experience mechanical failures which we can fix? 90% of BlackBerry users will never change the battery on their device. 100% of BlackBerries have a stupid door on the back which allows you to remove the battery and eventually becomes very loose and slides off. 80% of MacBook Retinas (at least) will never have a hardware problem (as long as Apple has finally learned how to correctly apply thermal paste). The ones who do we replace. The economics of replacing an entire device are finally starting to make sense. That's the really exciting thing about this. It is no longer cheaper for Apple to pay technical people in stores and service centres to cater for failure rates in hardware. It is now cheaper to throw the broken thing away and get a new one, and take a chance on not having two successive one-chance-in-a-million failures for the user.

bedris 14y ago
90% of BlackBerry users will never change the battery on their device. 100% of BlackBerries have a stupid door on the back which allows you to remove the battery and eventually becomes very loose and slides off. True, but it was sometimes the only way you could do a hard reboot on those things!
- georgespencer 14y ago
  Oh god don't remind me. You'd hear a notification for a text message, unlock the device and you'd see > JAVA MESSAGE ERROR Which required removing the battery to do a hard reset (which took about 120 seconds).
  - KeyBoardG 14y ago
    I used to have an auto-reboot app that scheduled hard resets to free memory and reduce crashes. So glad to be off that platform now.
    - 14y ago

raverbashing 14y ago

Yeah, but really, the thing is, the growth curve is bending down Processors have barely became faster in the last couple of years. Even a 5 year computer (with some upgrades) is good for doing what 99% of the people do today (internet) So chances are upgrades today are moot. Unless you're hitting the limits constantly like video editing, compiling software, etc

martingordon 14y ago
> Processors have barely became faster in the last couple of years. Funny you should mention that. I will be picking up one of the new MacBook Airs and when mulling over the 1.8 vs 2.0 GHz processors, I realized that my last three notebooks (including the new Air) have each had successively lower clock speeds while posting faster Geekbench scores. 2008 - Aluminum MacBook 2.4 GHz - 3374 2010 - MacBook Air 2.13 GHz - 3475 2012 - MacBook Air 1.8 GHz - 6398
- Evbn 14y ago
  That's because the boards are getting more cycles in GPU and cache and things, which are more important than straightahead serial speed.
  - bnegreve 14y ago
    It's also because the power consumption is quadratic with the frequency. This is important if you agree that an additional hour on battery is worth much more than few cylces per sec.
    - gcb 14y ago
      That's why your cpu runs on different paths to save power when not needed. Using a lower cpu is just lazy and cheap.
    - Dave_Rosenthal 14y ago
      No, the first-order model is that power consumption is quadratic with voltage, and linear with frequency.

MatthewPhillips 14y ago

There is the Air line for light weight laptops for normal people. I would think that the word Pro signals that this computer is for people who want to do stuff with it beyond what is provided up front.

padobson 14y ago
This is the crux of the entire issue, crystalized perfectly. If you are going to carry multiple product lines, then why would their features converge? I see no reason to get into the closed vs open debate - this is Apple we're talking about. But why would they turn the Mac Book pro into a MacBook Air with higher specs? Why not get rid of all the branding distinctions and let the consumer spec out the machine, with a few default configurations for those who don't want to think about specs?
- kamjam 14y ago
  Maybe they should rename it MacBook Air Pro? :)
- taligent 14y ago
  What you are talking about makes absolutely no sense. There are completely different chipsets, ports, batteries etc in a MacBook Air versus a MacBook Pro. Most of which have dependencies on each other. So a user can't just spec out a machine with the exception of very specific components. Hence why they are branded differently.
  - Retric 14y ago
    MBA is thin, has a SSD, integrated battery, an no disk drive. The MB pro is almost as thin, has a SSD, integrated battery, an no disk drive and a better screen. They killed the old Mack Book Line.
  - lnanek2 14y ago
    Not to mention it costs a lot to offer configurability, rather than just ordering countless hordes of a few models from the factories...

pasbesoin 14y ago

Off the top of my head (and so, perhaps wrong), I seem to recall the amount Apple is charging for going from 8 GB to 16 GB to be on the order of US$200. [1] For RAM that they are purchasing and installing in volume. That's a lot of net profit into their pocket, for each unit. And that's where I have one particular concern: Apple closing down and engorging itself on yet another market segment (upgrades). You can argue that it's their product, to do with as they please. But when they start to own entire supply chains (just how "easy" is it going to be for competitors to get retina-class displays, in a timely fashion?), well... you have to start considering the word "monopoly", even if you stick a "quasi" in front of it. They've done an excellent job with their products, and with their marketing. But there's a reason that "competition" continues to be a mantra throughout the world, one that is held by many factions of differing ideology. Over the long term, total control tends to go bad. [1] I don't know from where my memory has retained the $200 figure, but looking at Apple's web site, I see that switching from the 8 GB / 256 GB configuration to the 16 GB / 512 GB configuration takes the system price from $2199 to $2799, for a $600 difference. http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro/select http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo... Amazon has a retail Samsung 830 256 GB at $253 and a Samsung 830 512 GB at $677, for a $424 difference.

wavephorm 14y ago
So $424 extra for the bigger drive, and $176 for the extra ram... that sounds almost reasonable.
- pasbesoin 14y ago
  Could someone speak to the RAM installation and the materials cost involved in the RAM upgrade? Would it be akin to going from two 4 GB "sticks" to two 8 GB sticks? I'm seeing 4 GB DDR3 DIMM's at around $23, while 8 GB DIMM prices -- a bit scant in quantity -- appear to average in the low $50's. So, say $46 versus $110, for a $64 difference? Very approximately. And I didn't look closely at bus speeds -- just very off-the-cuff.
  - ajross 14y ago

ginko 14y ago

If there was such a choice I would probably have bought it already.

user49598 14y ago

The problem isn't just for tinkerers who want to upgrade. It's also about repairs and recycling. We're voting with our wallets for hardware that can't be easily or cheaply repaired and is impossible to be recycled.

tjoff 14y ago

These days, the stock specs of the Macbook Retina will be fine for even power users for years; almost certainly the life of a laptop. When the battery dies it will be worthless as a laptop. For a power user that means you are forced to buy a replacement way sooner than you'd want. Just yet another reason for why it is so obvious that apple does mainstream hardware, the sad part is that people confuse it with quality hardware.

ajross 14y ago
The battery is glued in, but apparently it is replaceable via factory service. No, I don't know what that means either (maybe they replace the plastic case part with it?).
- reneherse 14y ago
  Judicious use of a heat gun, I'm guessing, to soften the glue. Ha, wouldn't it be great if the batteries were held in place with something like those 3M Command strips, which hold fast until you pull on one edge?
jonknee 14y ago
Or just have the battery replaced like you can with all the other Apple products without a user replaceable battery. The Retina replacement is a little more expensive than the previous model, but it's also a larger battery.
CJefferson 14y ago
I think that 8GB might start to get a little tight. I have a 2 year old 4GB MacBook Pro, and had to upgrade the RAM as I found it swapping too much.

DennisP 14y ago

Further evidence that Apple has its thumb on the scale: special screws that can't be turned by readily-obtainable screwdrivers.

MaysonL 14y ago
>can't be turned by readily-obtainable screwdrivers $11 from newegg. Including shipping. Unlikely, however, to be readily available to an inquisitive 5-year-old, who might easily do more damage to some expensive electronics than he meant to, if he could get it open.
- lmm 14y ago
  Oh, come off it. Have you really had a 5-year-old open your electronics? If they find a screwdriver they can stick it through the screen just as easily whichever screws Apple uses, and that seems like a more likely damage path.
  - pdehaan 14y ago
    I was a 5-year-old with a penchant for opening electronics, so I'm fairly sure they exist. However, I'd be more worried about adults doing more harm than good by taking apart/putting things back together in an attempt to 'fix' it before going to someone that knows what they're doing. Also, many people ignore that most of those crazy looking screw drives also have benefits such as better cam-out resistance.
    - mikeash 14y ago
      Things like torx have such benefits, but does Apple's crazy pentalobe nonsense really have any benefits besides being uncommon?
  - niels_olson 14y ago
    yes, and yes, here's a picture of my XO-1 that went viral http://gizmodo.com/373124/kids-are-tearing-apart-the-olpc-laptops-keyboard-rather-easily http://gizmodo.com/373124/kids-are-tearing-apart-the-olpc-la...

falling 14y ago

> The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Well, the point of the article is that there was a choice between the MacBook Air and the MacBook Pro, and the outcome of that choice resulted in the current evolution. He is saying wouldn’t like that choice made again.

easp 14y ago

I suspect that the entry level Retina pro is only as "cheap" as it is because Apple is assure of capturing all the upgrade revenue. Further, if they were offering an upgradable model in addition to the current retina option, in addition to the existing model, they'd both be more expensive than if only one was offered, because the screen supply is constrained, and with the market split, the volumes on the thin/light model would be lower.

ScottBurson 14y ago

the death of the 17" Macbook LapCrusher(tm) Huh. I love my 17" MBP. In fact I bought my third one a year ago... and now I'm particularly glad I did. I'll have to see how many years I can get out of this one... 7 or 8, maybe.

Ralith 14y ago

> These days, the stock specs of the Macbook Retina will be fine for even power users for years; almost certainly the life of a laptop A challenge which is much more easily met when the life of the laptop is limited by design.

charlieok 14y ago

What won't be good for years is the battery...

lsc 14y ago

>There was a comment (I think here) yesterday that said, effectively, "Upgradability was a defect of technology not being 'good enough' for long periods". eh I think that comment is missing the real lifecycle of tech. First, it goes to the mac users. People that are willing to pay a large premium for something super stylish that they don't have to screw with. These people don't want to upgrade; that defeats the whole point of paying extra so they don't have to screw with it. Two to three years down the road, the hardware gets discarded by the 'my bicycle has no flywheel' set and ends up with one of my people. At that point, it matters that we can't upgrade the ram or the disk, as there are going to be dramatically better parts at that point. Of course, apple doesn't care; I mean, I'm sure apple bears us no ill-will, but apple has no reason to go out of their way to make our lives easier. We're not going to spend that kind of scratch on a laptop. You see the same thing with electric and hybrid vehicles; Their batteries are out of warranty and will be completely useless around the time that they drop into the price range where I'd consider buying them; and a new battery pack kicks them out of my price range again. But why would Tesla or Toyota care? I'm not going to buy a new car from them. (of course, like I said, manufacturers of high-end new stuff have no reason to care about 'my people' - so eh, from the manufacturer's standpoint, you are correct, but there is a whole ecosystem of scavengers that will be disappointed by this trend.)