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If the features of Duolingo are available in another app (i.e. their various memorization techniques, vocabulary building, various interactive learning, etc.) t

If the features of Duolingo are available in another app (i.e. their various memorization techniques, vocabulary building, various interactive learning, etc.) that doesn't gamify or nag. Let me know since I really detest these aspects of Duolingo. I succumbed to paying for the app since it is virtually unusable with the frequency of ads on the freemium model. They are a very dislikable brand.

BlanketLogic 2y ago
FWIW, I found Busuu great. After a year on busuu and 1000 days on duolingo, I find the former way better for language acquisition.
- aswerty 2y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation. But just checking it out there,it seems to also follow a gamification model that forces you to click "commitment" buttons like you are some kind of child.
ryukoposting 2y ago
I like Duolingo for the exact reasons you don't. I want to learn a language, and I will need to know the basics to be able to talk to people on my honeymoon next year. What you see as "nagging" I see as "holding me accountable to a goal I've set for myself." I can definitely see why you'd want to be able to dial back the notifications, though. On principle, I'd usually be on your side in this kind of situation. But again, for me, in this particular case, the nagging is a feature, not a nuisance. Besides, of all the things an app can nag you about, learning a language is pretty innocuous. Fun fact: if you have a pi-hole, the only ad you'll ever get is their own ad promoting Super Duolingo. I'm assuming it's a video embedded in the app somewhere.
- gwervc 2y ago
  > I want to learn a language Then why are you using Duolingo in the first place? That app has to be the worst method, because people think they are progressing while they in fact don't. From personal experience it's the worst method I tired to learn a language, and the content present for languages I know isn't good either.
  - ryukoposting 2y ago
    I plan on adding a community college class into the mix, so there is some education outside of the app that will happen eventually. But, there's at least a few reasons why you'd use Duolingo exclusively. 1. If you can't afford something better. I keep getting pummeled on the leaderboard by people doing 5000+ XP/week worth of English for Spanish Speakers. None of them have Super Duolingo (you can see if they have it by looking at their profile) 2. If you're testing the waters. I already talked about the money, but a semester of a language class is a big time commitment, too. You also lose scheduling flexibility that's especially desirable when you don't know if you want to commit to a class yet. Then there's supplemental, extracurricular practice. If you never use a language outside of class, you'll lose it very quickly. Anyone who had to take a language class in middle/high school knows this. Duolingo (or any other app) can help reinforce learning, by regularly poking the "foreign language" part of your brain, even on days when you aren't in class.
    - aswerty 2y ago
      The supplemental is what I'm using it as, in between my A1 and A2 in-class lessons I'm using it to keep my level up and improve my ability to sentence build. New vocabulary is also nice.
  - Vinnl 2y ago
    I'm definitely progressing. I won't get fluent, but my level is definitely higher than that of languages I learned in high school, and I can read signs and stuff. (In fact, I think the method is fairly similar.) The reason I use Duolingo because it's the only thing I'll actually use, thanks to the emotional blackmail.
- anonfornoreason 2y ago
  If it’s important, why cede control of your own discipline to a notification loop of a for-profit company? A technique I like to use is to wake up an hour early everyday and do some studying before anyone else is awake. Making dedicated time for something is like making a commitment to myself. Strengthens my ability to do it each time, feels more like I am in control. Awesome to be learning something new either way though! Edit: I reworded my original comment to sound much less harsh. Same sentiment, better delivery!
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    Why poor people just don't get rich? You might not lack discipline but most people that lacks it have a really hard time doing this: "if you need to learn something, set a schedule like an hour each morning before anyone else is up, and take control and learn it."
  - ryukoposting 2y ago
    I started writing this before you updated your comment. I'm glad I saw the change, because I was going to reply with a similar level of snark! In my case, I'm learning German. My wife already knows a good bit of German (which she learned in "real" classes, not Duolingo) so I have a captive practice buddy. We speak German with each other sometimes, and she has coached me through some things Duolingo can't - like properly articulating the German "ch" sound. I like your approach, by the way - it's almost exactly what I use for my photography. I wake up with the sun, about 2 hours before my wife, and I go make photos. The thing about HN comment threads is that you don't know who anyone is. So, the natural(?) assumption ends up being that anyone who disagrees with you is the perfect strawman for your own side of the argument. In my case, I have a support structure outside of Duolingo, I have an active interest in taking my learning outside the app... and I still find the gamification and notifications helpful. I just don't feel very motivated some days, but I still get a few lessons in! Something in me wants to be high up on that leaderboard. Is this the healthiest way to harness behavioral psychology to learn a language? I don't know, I'm not a psychologist. In any case, I'm practicing German every day, and that's pretty cool. With Duolingo, I think the ends justify the means. FWIW you can turn off the notifications in your phone's settings, and emails are easy to direct to junk/spam/whatever black hole you prefer.
pajko 2y ago
Not tried this yet but looks interesting: https://www.50languages.com/apps https://www.50languages.com/apps
lkgbgjjugfffffg 2y ago
I have unlimited hearts and I don't pay for subscription. I don't know if there is a glitch with my account or maybe my streak is so long (>1500 days) they have just given up on trying to monetise me.
- DicIfTEx 2y ago
  I'm the same, I just figured I'd been grandfathered into something. Although I don't use the app any more since they redesigned all the courses last year or so; it's worthless now.
- maeil 2y ago
  Be careful, there's guaranteed to be employees reading along here :)
djaouen 2y ago
Babbel or Rosetta Stone
- aswerty 2y ago
  Can you elaborate? It seems pretty opaque what they are like since it seems to be credit card up front with both of them.
  - djaouen 2y ago
    They are also language learning apps. Different style than Duolingo, but still worth the price imo
  - barrell 2y ago
    Babbel kind of takes traditional textbook style learning, and adapts it quite well to technology. It's also built around really colloquial conversations, and the audio is high quality. I would say it tends to focus more on how people actually speak than textbook-style speech Rosetta Stone was the big player before Duolingo. They had a method that involved not using your mother tongue, which they called 'immersion'. I believe in the recent years (since Duolingo ate their pie) they have moved more and more towards dueling style learning. They have an app that's a lot more corporate, but I've heard good things about it too Note, I haven't used either of these applications in years, I just work in the space and this is my understanding of them
    - aswerty 2y ago
      Thanks for the summation. I was aware of Rosetta Stone as an older entity. Babbel sounds interesting.
carstenhag 2y ago
I like Lingvist for vocabulary building, but it's also not perfect.
- barrell 2y ago
  If you were in charge of Lingvist, what would you change/build? edit: long time lingvist user, I'm also a huuuuge fan.
  - carstenhag 2y ago
    Lingvist only tells you how a word/sentence is written and spelt. It only explains what the single word & full sentence you are looking for means. But sometimes it would be useful to know what a different, already shown, word means.
barrell 2y ago
Could you elaborate on which features you'd miss from Duolingo if you switched? For context I'm working on a language learning app (phrasing.app) and I'm pretty against gamification. I've got a couple different review methods (listening, tapping, and typing) but I assume you're referring to a more complete feature set. PS: If anyone wants to beta test the application, contact me on twitter @barrelltech. I just got everything re-released this weekend, so I'm just now starting to work on user guides and documentation!
- aswerty 2y ago
  I don't think they do anything special. It's just on aggregate between their various interactive mechanisms, there is nice variance to the types of interaction you get to do. Speaking, typing, word selection, etc.
  - barrell 2y ago
    So when you click on a lesson - you like the variance of all the review types before the lesson finishes? That's very doable! Definitely somewhere I'm working towards, and I have a loooot of review ideas XD it'll be a few months until I add more I think though. Thanks!
netsharc 2y ago
With a PiHole/DNS blocking of ad servers, I just get their presumably baked-in "Get Super Duolingo" ads, these are not skippable but I just close the app and reopen it a second later.
jghn 2y ago
It's not the ads that bother me it's the heart model. I use the website, not the app. About a year and change ago they transitioned to the hearts. The amount I use Duo every day dropped by about half as once I'm out of hearts for the day I stop.
TheDong 2y ago
Resources for things like vocabulary building and such will vary by your target language. However, the "memorization techniques" of most language apps really boil down to "spaced repetition" (SRS) of some form, which is basically doing reps, and having the space between reps increase over time as you remember them better. Anki and Mochi are two spaced repetition systems (which will require you to create or find your own flashcards, but will take care of spacing out when to review them), and if you google for spaced repetition software targeting your target language, you'll probably find other alternatives too. I personally find Anki to be a joy of a piece of software, and after using it for 5 years I have no intention of stopping or switching to another SRS app.
tekeous 2y ago
Mango is super good and free with most library cards.

BlanketLogic 2y ago

FWIW, I found Busuu great. After a year on busuu and 1000 days on duolingo, I find the former way better for language acquisition.

aswerty 2y ago
Thanks for the recommendation. But just checking it out there,it seems to also follow a gamification model that forces you to click "commitment" buttons like you are some kind of child.

ryukoposting 2y ago

I like Duolingo for the exact reasons you don't. I want to learn a language, and I will need to know the basics to be able to talk to people on my honeymoon next year. What you see as "nagging" I see as "holding me accountable to a goal I've set for myself." I can definitely see why you'd want to be able to dial back the notifications, though. On principle, I'd usually be on your side in this kind of situation. But again, for me, in this particular case, the nagging is a feature, not a nuisance. Besides, of all the things an app can nag you about, learning a language is pretty innocuous. Fun fact: if you have a pi-hole, the only ad you'll ever get is their own ad promoting Super Duolingo. I'm assuming it's a video embedded in the app somewhere.

gwervc 2y ago
> I want to learn a language Then why are you using Duolingo in the first place? That app has to be the worst method, because people think they are progressing while they in fact don't. From personal experience it's the worst method I tired to learn a language, and the content present for languages I know isn't good either.
- ryukoposting 2y ago
  I plan on adding a community college class into the mix, so there is some education outside of the app that will happen eventually. But, there's at least a few reasons why you'd use Duolingo exclusively. 1. If you can't afford something better. I keep getting pummeled on the leaderboard by people doing 5000+ XP/week worth of English for Spanish Speakers. None of them have Super Duolingo (you can see if they have it by looking at their profile) 2. If you're testing the waters. I already talked about the money, but a semester of a language class is a big time commitment, too. You also lose scheduling flexibility that's especially desirable when you don't know if you want to commit to a class yet. Then there's supplemental, extracurricular practice. If you never use a language outside of class, you'll lose it very quickly. Anyone who had to take a language class in middle/high school knows this. Duolingo (or any other app) can help reinforce learning, by regularly poking the "foreign language" part of your brain, even on days when you aren't in class.
  - aswerty 2y ago
    The supplemental is what I'm using it as, in between my A1 and A2 in-class lessons I'm using it to keep my level up and improve my ability to sentence build. New vocabulary is also nice.
- Vinnl 2y ago
  I'm definitely progressing. I won't get fluent, but my level is definitely higher than that of languages I learned in high school, and I can read signs and stuff. (In fact, I think the method is fairly similar.) The reason I use Duolingo because it's the only thing I'll actually use, thanks to the emotional blackmail.
anonfornoreason 2y ago
If it’s important, why cede control of your own discipline to a notification loop of a for-profit company? A technique I like to use is to wake up an hour early everyday and do some studying before anyone else is awake. Making dedicated time for something is like making a commitment to myself. Strengthens my ability to do it each time, feels more like I am in control. Awesome to be learning something new either way though! Edit: I reworded my original comment to sound much less harsh. Same sentiment, better delivery!
- meiraleal 2y ago
  Why poor people just don't get rich? You might not lack discipline but most people that lacks it have a really hard time doing this: "if you need to learn something, set a schedule like an hour each morning before anyone else is up, and take control and learn it."
- ryukoposting 2y ago
  I started writing this before you updated your comment. I'm glad I saw the change, because I was going to reply with a similar level of snark! In my case, I'm learning German. My wife already knows a good bit of German (which she learned in "real" classes, not Duolingo) so I have a captive practice buddy. We speak German with each other sometimes, and she has coached me through some things Duolingo can't - like properly articulating the German "ch" sound. I like your approach, by the way - it's almost exactly what I use for my photography. I wake up with the sun, about 2 hours before my wife, and I go make photos. The thing about HN comment threads is that you don't know who anyone is. So, the natural(?) assumption ends up being that anyone who disagrees with you is the perfect strawman for your own side of the argument. In my case, I have a support structure outside of Duolingo, I have an active interest in taking my learning outside the app... and I still find the gamification and notifications helpful. I just don't feel very motivated some days, but I still get a few lessons in! Something in me wants to be high up on that leaderboard. Is this the healthiest way to harness behavioral psychology to learn a language? I don't know, I'm not a psychologist. In any case, I'm practicing German every day, and that's pretty cool. With Duolingo, I think the ends justify the means. FWIW you can turn off the notifications in your phone's settings, and emails are easy to direct to junk/spam/whatever black hole you prefer.

pajko 2y ago

Not tried this yet but looks interesting: https://www.50languages.com/apps https://www.50languages.com/apps

lkgbgjjugfffffg 2y ago

I have unlimited hearts and I don't pay for subscription. I don't know if there is a glitch with my account or maybe my streak is so long (>1500 days) they have just given up on trying to monetise me.

DicIfTEx 2y ago
I'm the same, I just figured I'd been grandfathered into something. Although I don't use the app any more since they redesigned all the courses last year or so; it's worthless now.
maeil 2y ago
Be careful, there's guaranteed to be employees reading along here :)

djaouen 2y ago

Babbel or Rosetta Stone

aswerty 2y ago
Can you elaborate? It seems pretty opaque what they are like since it seems to be credit card up front with both of them.
- djaouen 2y ago
  They are also language learning apps. Different style than Duolingo, but still worth the price imo
- barrell 2y ago
  Babbel kind of takes traditional textbook style learning, and adapts it quite well to technology. It's also built around really colloquial conversations, and the audio is high quality. I would say it tends to focus more on how people actually speak than textbook-style speech Rosetta Stone was the big player before Duolingo. They had a method that involved not using your mother tongue, which they called 'immersion'. I believe in the recent years (since Duolingo ate their pie) they have moved more and more towards dueling style learning. They have an app that's a lot more corporate, but I've heard good things about it too Note, I haven't used either of these applications in years, I just work in the space and this is my understanding of them
  - aswerty 2y ago
    Thanks for the summation. I was aware of Rosetta Stone as an older entity. Babbel sounds interesting.

carstenhag 2y ago

I like Lingvist for vocabulary building, but it's also not perfect.

barrell 2y ago
If you were in charge of Lingvist, what would you change/build? edit: long time lingvist user, I'm also a huuuuge fan.
- carstenhag 2y ago
  Lingvist only tells you how a word/sentence is written and spelt. It only explains what the single word & full sentence you are looking for means. But sometimes it would be useful to know what a different, already shown, word means.

barrell 2y ago

Could you elaborate on which features you'd miss from Duolingo if you switched? For context I'm working on a language learning app (phrasing.app) and I'm pretty against gamification. I've got a couple different review methods (listening, tapping, and typing) but I assume you're referring to a more complete feature set. PS: If anyone wants to beta test the application, contact me on twitter @barrelltech. I just got everything re-released this weekend, so I'm just now starting to work on user guides and documentation!

aswerty 2y ago
I don't think they do anything special. It's just on aggregate between their various interactive mechanisms, there is nice variance to the types of interaction you get to do. Speaking, typing, word selection, etc.
- barrell 2y ago
  So when you click on a lesson - you like the variance of all the review types before the lesson finishes? That's very doable! Definitely somewhere I'm working towards, and I have a loooot of review ideas XD it'll be a few months until I add more I think though. Thanks!

netsharc 2y ago

With a PiHole/DNS blocking of ad servers, I just get their presumably baked-in "Get Super Duolingo" ads, these are not skippable but I just close the app and reopen it a second later.

jghn 2y ago

It's not the ads that bother me it's the heart model. I use the website, not the app. About a year and change ago they transitioned to the hearts. The amount I use Duo every day dropped by about half as once I'm out of hearts for the day I stop.

TheDong 2y ago

Resources for things like vocabulary building and such will vary by your target language. However, the "memorization techniques" of most language apps really boil down to "spaced repetition" (SRS) of some form, which is basically doing reps, and having the space between reps increase over time as you remember them better. Anki and Mochi are two spaced repetition systems (which will require you to create or find your own flashcards, but will take care of spacing out when to review them), and if you google for spaced repetition software targeting your target language, you'll probably find other alternatives too. I personally find Anki to be a joy of a piece of software, and after using it for 5 years I have no intention of stopping or switching to another SRS app.

tekeous 2y ago

Mango is super good and free with most library cards.