3 ms·

What's the story with WebGPU in Firefox? Why is it still not enabled by default?

by shmerl 2y ago

nox101 2y ago
Because they haven't finished implementing it and lots of functionality is missing. Neither has Safari ship it. Same reason. They aren't done.
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  We investigated this many years ago: https://github.com/BabylonJS/Babylon.js/ https://github.com/BabylonJS/Babylon.js/ 1. It works just fine for basic 3D functionality, but has limited support for tricks like fog FX etc. WebGL is actually quite capable when combined with simplified physics engines, and animated mesh packing formats. 2. In a business context it fails to check all the boxes, as people are not going to invest in a platform with near zero IP protection. 3. Steam + Unreal has all the advantages, and none of the problems/overhead of a Browser. i.e. peoples game pads, spacial audio, and shader cache buffers will work properly. WebGL is just hitting the same VRML market that failed decades ago for the same reasons. =3
  - nox101 2y ago
    WebGL powers both Google Maps and Figma. maybe you're thinking too small as for ip protection. Which platforms do that? https://www.models-resource.com/ https://www.models-resource.com/
    - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
      Then Google Maps is still in App form because... just kidding... we both already know why. =3
      - nox101 2y ago
        confused . There is no native desktop app for google maps. And it does full 3d. maybe you meant on mobile? But you brought up Steam so clearly not mobile Earth is WebGL now too https://earth.google.com https://earth.google.com
        Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        Google Earth Pro download link: https://www.google.com/earth/about/versions/ https://www.google.com/earth/about/versions/ Probably a bad example, but it is not our concern if Google wants to repeat the VRML/X3D trajectory. Best of luck =3
erichdongubler 2y ago
Hey, member of the Firefox WebGPU team here. The short summary is: it's not yet ready for general consumption, but we're hoping to do so on the order of months, not years! Many things already work, and we'd encourage you to try it out on Nightly. There is a _lot_ of work to do still to make sure we comply with the spec. in a way that's acceptable to ship in a browser. We're 90% of the way there in terms of functionality, but the last 10% of fixing up spec. changes in the last few years + being significantly more resourced-constrained (we have 3 full-time folks, Chrome has/had an order of magnitude more humans working on WebGPU) means we've got our work cut out for us. If you're interested if your use cases work already a consumer of WebGPU in JS on Firefox, you can: - Follow the `Platform Graphics: WebGPU` component in Bugzilla ([0]). - CC yourself on the `webgpu-v1`[0] bug and its dependent meta bugs (which aggregate yet more work). These get updated every so often to recognize the (ahem) ever-growing list of things we have to do in Firefox. - Try things out in Nightly, and file issues to help us prioritize things! [0]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?component=Graphics%3A%20WebGPU&resolution=---&list_id=17153386&query_format=advanced&classification=Client%20Software&classification=Developer%20Infrastructure&classification=Components&classification=Server%20Software&classification=Other https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?component=Graphics%... [1]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=webgpu-v1 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=webgpu-v1
- shmerl 2y ago
  Good to know, thanks!
- raphlinus 2y ago
  Cheering on the progress. As a long time user of wgpu in Vello, I'm impressed with the progress there. The advanced compute stuff has been working quite well, and it's also got some nice extensions like subgroups (so far only usable in native configurations, but I'm hopeful the extension will be standardized so it's available in browser as well).
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  Add proper game-pad and joystick calibration support. The whole sandbox HID scope capture issue is a core problem that needs resolved. Best of luck =3

What's the story with WebGPU in Firefox? Why is it still not enabled by default?

by shmerl 2y ago

What's the story with WebGPU in Firefox? Why is it still not enabled by default?

Because they haven't finished implementing it and lots of functionality is missing. Neither has Safari ship it. Same reason. They aren't done.

Joel_Mckay 2y ago
We investigated this many years ago: https://github.com/BabylonJS/Babylon.js/ https://github.com/BabylonJS/Babylon.js/ 1. It works just fine for basic 3D functionality, but has limited support for tricks like fog FX etc. WebGL is actually quite capable when combined with simplified physics engines, and animated mesh packing formats. 2. In a business context it fails to check all the boxes, as people are not going to invest in a platform with near zero IP protection. 3. Steam + Unreal has all the advantages, and none of the problems/overhead of a Browser. i.e. peoples game pads, spacial audio, and shader cache buffers will work properly. WebGL is just hitting the same VRML market that failed decades ago for the same reasons. =3
- nox101 2y ago
  WebGL powers both Google Maps and Figma. maybe you're thinking too small as for ip protection. Which platforms do that? https://www.models-resource.com/ https://www.models-resource.com/
  - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
    Then Google Maps is still in App form because... just kidding... we both already know why. =3
    - nox101 2y ago
      confused . There is no native desktop app for google maps. And it does full 3d. maybe you meant on mobile? But you brought up Steam so clearly not mobile Earth is WebGL now too https://earth.google.com https://earth.google.com
      - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
        Google Earth Pro download link: https://www.google.com/earth/about/versions/ https://www.google.com/earth/about/versions/ Probably a bad example, but it is not our concern if Google wants to repeat the VRML/X3D trajectory. Best of luck =3

erichdongubler 2y ago

Hey, member of the Firefox WebGPU team here. The short summary is: it's not yet ready for general consumption, but we're hoping to do so on the order of months, not years! Many things already work, and we'd encourage you to try it out on Nightly. There is a _lot_ of work to do still to make sure we comply with the spec. in a way that's acceptable to ship in a browser. We're 90% of the way there in terms of functionality, but the last 10% of fixing up spec. changes in the last few years + being significantly more resourced-constrained (we have 3 full-time folks, Chrome has/had an order of magnitude more humans working on WebGPU) means we've got our work cut out for us. If you're interested if your use cases work already a consumer of WebGPU in JS on Firefox, you can: - Follow the `Platform Graphics: WebGPU` component in Bugzilla ([0]). - CC yourself on the `webgpu-v1`[0] bug and its dependent meta bugs (which aggregate yet more work). These get updated every so often to recognize the (ahem) ever-growing list of things we have to do in Firefox. - Try things out in Nightly, and file issues to help us prioritize things! [0]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?component=Graphics%3A%20WebGPU&resolution=---&list_id=17153386&query_format=advanced&classification=Client%20Software&classification=Developer%20Infrastructure&classification=Components&classification=Server%20Software&classification=Other https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?component=Graphics%... [1]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=webgpu-v1 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=webgpu-v1

shmerl 2y ago
Good to know, thanks!
raphlinus 2y ago
Cheering on the progress. As a long time user of wgpu in Vello, I'm impressed with the progress there. The advanced compute stuff has been working quite well, and it's also got some nice extensions like subgroups (so far only usable in native configurations, but I'm hopeful the extension will be standardized so it's available in browser as well).
Joel_Mckay 2y ago
Add proper game-pad and joystick calibration support. The whole sandbox HID scope capture issue is a core problem that needs resolved. Best of luck =3