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Trump is a centrist -- I think you've spotted this here. He's an extreme populist authoritarian centrist -- a centrist dictator wannabe. (I don't think people

by ecjhdnc2025 2y ago

Trump is a centrist -- I think you've spotted this here. He's an extreme populist authoritarian centrist -- a centrist dictator wannabe. (I don't think people understand that successful dictators don't need to take a left or right position, and indeed any position they do take will ultimately be sacrificed to whichever policy choice centres power on the executive.) Trumpism is its own thing, and this is why he beat Hillary (who was a mildly authoritarian, technocratic centrist). The 2016 presidential election did not take place on the left-right axis. It took place on the populist-libertarian axis of the Political Compass: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Political_Compass He only had to gesture towards the people he wanted to vote for him, which he did without care for consistency.

proc0 2y ago
All dictators take as much power as soon as they can. They get elected and immediately secure indefinite power. Trump did nothing of that sort for four years, and then arguably he was grossly negligent on J6... which would have been bad on its own if he wasn't constantly being made a martyr by people in power. I would say "Trumpism" is just a 3rd party that had no choice but to graft on to the Republican party, and only recently has more or less consolidated power, changing the party. Before that both parties were basically aligned on almost everything, and it never mattered who was the president. The whole dictator narrative started even before 2016 and has no evidence behind it other than some statements quoted out of context. If Trump was left alone after losing 2020, I'm pretty sure people would have moved on, so ironically or coincidentally, the people who are trying to stop him are helping him, which is what happened in 2016 as well.
- ecjhdnc2025 2y ago
  > Trump did nothing of that sort for four years This just isn't true. Look at how he proposed to force the sale of Tiktok USA to Microsoft: purely dictatorial. And there was an enormous amount of pure strongman talk, which is a harbinger of dictatorialism. He wasn't merely "grossly negligent" on January 6th, and anyone sane knows that. Simply because: there is no legal way the Vice President could intervene. Everything that happened on January 6th was planned, promoted (including by Trump -- "will be wild") and deliberately focussed to put pressure on Pence to act illegally. "Mike Pence didn't have the courage". Trump even wanted armed people to be able to gather in the protest (because they weren't coming for him). > If Trump was left alone after losing 2020, I'm pretty sure people would have moved on Except with all the bits where he and his campaign tried everything possible including illegal means to stay in power, on a multi-state basis. Normal presidents don't ring up the people who run elections and ask them to "find" votes.
  - proc0 2y ago
    I disagree and most of that sounds like a biased take that is heavily influenced by all the lies and smears that were constantly being pushed for 8 years. Let's back up before he ran for president. He was a celebrity, a businessman, appeared in movies, had a reality TV show. As soon as he wins against all projections, they start smearing him about colluding with Russia... which if true is literally treason!!... except it was all a lie and nobody cared afterward, and he was never charged with treason, and then everyone just forgot about it. If it were true we would have had president Pence. Yet nobody apologized or said "oh, i guess this was a huge lie and we messed up", absolute silence. Instead they used that as an excuse to attack him for four years, and when he lost in 2020, only THEN they admitted it was not true. To me, this is a key event. Show me Trump colluded with Russia, and why people forgot this is treason and should be punished... or explain why nobody is holding people accountable for such a huge lie. If they lied about that they can lie about anything, and they have. Trump is by no means a great candidate, but he is the only candidate that can withstand all of this smearing and lying, which has never happened to any other president before.
    - ecjhdnc2025 2y ago
      Do you disagree that Trump pressured the Georgia elections people to find him votes? On a phone call? Because he very clearly did. He had no business making that call at all otherwise. And lots of people were on it and were in no doubt about what it was about. Do you disagree that his campaign -- headed by him, reporting to him, with him aware of it -- created fake slates of electors to try to steal electoral college votes? Because that seems pretty obviously to have happened. Do you disagree that Trump knew the January 6th protests would lead to people marching on the Capitol? Do you think it plausible he didn't know and wasn't advised what would happen? He had no business organising that march otherwise -- there was nothing that could happen on January 6th to change the outcome that wasn't against the constitution. -- The Russia collusion stuff was not, in fact, all a lie, at all. https://time.com/5556331/mueller-investigation-indictments-guilty-pleas/ https://time.com/5556331/mueller-investigation-indictments-g... People were convicted for actively misleading the FBI about their contacts with Russia, so it could not be prosecuted properly. That's pretty serious (and it has precedents: Scooter Libby for example). Mueller just pulled the final punches. Including that Trump -- then a sitting president -- lied to the investigation. Nobody has ever "admitted that it is not true" because nobody knows for sure except probably the people who lied to the FBI about pretty much everything. But there is a hell of a stink (and that stink started with Manafort, who -- surprise surprise -- Trump tried to recruit again for this cycle, and who got the 2016 RNC platform changed to stop promising to arm Ukraine)

proc0 2y ago

All dictators take as much power as soon as they can. They get elected and immediately secure indefinite power. Trump did nothing of that sort for four years, and then arguably he was grossly negligent on J6... which would have been bad on its own if he wasn't constantly being made a martyr by people in power. I would say "Trumpism" is just a 3rd party that had no choice but to graft on to the Republican party, and only recently has more or less consolidated power, changing the party. Before that both parties were basically aligned on almost everything, and it never mattered who was the president. The whole dictator narrative started even before 2016 and has no evidence behind it other than some statements quoted out of context. If Trump was left alone after losing 2020, I'm pretty sure people would have moved on, so ironically or coincidentally, the people who are trying to stop him are helping him, which is what happened in 2016 as well.

ecjhdnc2025 2y ago
> Trump did nothing of that sort for four years This just isn't true. Look at how he proposed to force the sale of Tiktok USA to Microsoft: purely dictatorial. And there was an enormous amount of pure strongman talk, which is a harbinger of dictatorialism. He wasn't merely "grossly negligent" on January 6th, and anyone sane knows that. Simply because: there is no legal way the Vice President could intervene. Everything that happened on January 6th was planned, promoted (including by Trump -- "will be wild") and deliberately focussed to put pressure on Pence to act illegally. "Mike Pence didn't have the courage". Trump even wanted armed people to be able to gather in the protest (because they weren't coming for him). > If Trump was left alone after losing 2020, I'm pretty sure people would have moved on Except with all the bits where he and his campaign tried everything possible including illegal means to stay in power, on a multi-state basis. Normal presidents don't ring up the people who run elections and ask them to "find" votes.
- proc0 2y ago
  I disagree and most of that sounds like a biased take that is heavily influenced by all the lies and smears that were constantly being pushed for 8 years. Let's back up before he ran for president. He was a celebrity, a businessman, appeared in movies, had a reality TV show. As soon as he wins against all projections, they start smearing him about colluding with Russia... which if true is literally treason!!... except it was all a lie and nobody cared afterward, and he was never charged with treason, and then everyone just forgot about it. If it were true we would have had president Pence. Yet nobody apologized or said "oh, i guess this was a huge lie and we messed up", absolute silence. Instead they used that as an excuse to attack him for four years, and when he lost in 2020, only THEN they admitted it was not true. To me, this is a key event. Show me Trump colluded with Russia, and why people forgot this is treason and should be punished... or explain why nobody is holding people accountable for such a huge lie. If they lied about that they can lie about anything, and they have. Trump is by no means a great candidate, but he is the only candidate that can withstand all of this smearing and lying, which has never happened to any other president before.
  - ecjhdnc2025 2y ago
    Do you disagree that Trump pressured the Georgia elections people to find him votes? On a phone call? Because he very clearly did. He had no business making that call at all otherwise. And lots of people were on it and were in no doubt about what it was about. Do you disagree that his campaign -- headed by him, reporting to him, with him aware of it -- created fake slates of electors to try to steal electoral college votes? Because that seems pretty obviously to have happened. Do you disagree that Trump knew the January 6th protests would lead to people marching on the Capitol? Do you think it plausible he didn't know and wasn't advised what would happen? He had no business organising that march otherwise -- there was nothing that could happen on January 6th to change the outcome that wasn't against the constitution. -- The Russia collusion stuff was not, in fact, all a lie, at all. https://time.com/5556331/mueller-investigation-indictments-guilty-pleas/ https://time.com/5556331/mueller-investigation-indictments-g... People were convicted for actively misleading the FBI about their contacts with Russia, so it could not be prosecuted properly. That's pretty serious (and it has precedents: Scooter Libby for example). Mueller just pulled the final punches. Including that Trump -- then a sitting president -- lied to the investigation. Nobody has ever "admitted that it is not true" because nobody knows for sure except probably the people who lied to the FBI about pretty much everything. But there is a hell of a stink (and that stink started with Manafort, who -- surprise surprise -- Trump tried to recruit again for this cycle, and who got the 2016 RNC platform changed to stop promising to arm Ukraine)