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> An EU-style arrangement seems ideal in the medium term. It lets Taiwan have a positive long-term influence on Chinese politics, while preventing HK-style crac

by tivert 2y ago

> An EU-style arrangement seems ideal in the medium term. It lets Taiwan have a positive long-term influence on Chinese politics, while preventing HK-style crackdowns in the other direction. That's a total nonstarter though. The CCP is not going to subordinate itself and cede power to some EU-like supranational authority that it doesn't utterly dominate, and it has also demonstrated how much its own guarantees are worth (with the HK crackdown).

worstspotgain 2y ago
Obviously China would utterly dominate the super-national authority due to proportional representation. The point is to move towards unification while Taiwan remains a sovereign country in the interim. Taiwan becomes more of a part of China over time, while hopefully China's politics become more like Taiwan's.
- tivert 2y ago
  > ...while hopefully China's politics become more like Taiwan's. That's an utter fantasy, especially by the mechanism you propose. To be absolutely blunt: your proposal strikes me as the kind of thing a no-nothing outsider would propose, someone who has no skin in the game and would suffer none of the consequences, and whose ignorance makes a solution seem easy. I mean, FFS, (assuming your an American) would you propose a supra-national union between the US and China with "proportional representation" (meaning China dominates the US) and a mere hope that China's politics become "more like" democracy?
  - worstspotgain 2y ago
    Uh, no. As I said up top, I didn't come up with the idea: In the 2000 presidential election, independent candidate James Soon proposed a European Union-style relation with mainland China (this was echoed by Hsu Hsin-liang in 2004) along with a non-aggression pact. In the 2004 presidential election, Lien Chan proposed a confederation-style relationship. [1] It seems to me that maybe your dismissal of the CCP making concessions towards unification in general fits the notion of a "know-nothing outsider" much more than what I wrote. Both China and Taiwan have long held that there is only "One China" and that they eventually belong together. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_unification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_unification
- EasyMark 2y ago
  We thought bringing more capitalism would open up the CCP to more progressive government and attitude towards their citizens. None of that happened, and it’s probably worse now than in the 70s when Nixon gave it a shot. It was a complete failure.

by tivert 2y ago

worstspotgain 2y ago

Obviously China would utterly dominate the super-national authority due to proportional representation. The point is to move towards unification while Taiwan remains a sovereign country in the interim. Taiwan becomes more of a part of China over time, while hopefully China's politics become more like Taiwan's.

tivert 2y ago
> ...while hopefully China's politics become more like Taiwan's. That's an utter fantasy, especially by the mechanism you propose. To be absolutely blunt: your proposal strikes me as the kind of thing a no-nothing outsider would propose, someone who has no skin in the game and would suffer none of the consequences, and whose ignorance makes a solution seem easy. I mean, FFS, (assuming your an American) would you propose a supra-national union between the US and China with "proportional representation" (meaning China dominates the US) and a mere hope that China's politics become "more like" democracy?
- worstspotgain 2y ago
  Uh, no. As I said up top, I didn't come up with the idea: In the 2000 presidential election, independent candidate James Soon proposed a European Union-style relation with mainland China (this was echoed by Hsu Hsin-liang in 2004) along with a non-aggression pact. In the 2004 presidential election, Lien Chan proposed a confederation-style relationship. [1] It seems to me that maybe your dismissal of the CCP making concessions towards unification in general fits the notion of a "know-nothing outsider" much more than what I wrote. Both China and Taiwan have long held that there is only "One China" and that they eventually belong together. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_unification https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_unification
EasyMark 2y ago
We thought bringing more capitalism would open up the CCP to more progressive government and attitude towards their citizens. None of that happened, and it’s probably worse now than in the 70s when Nixon gave it a shot. It was a complete failure.