3 ms·

You'd be better off doing the farming the old fashioned way if the goal is to feed a family. Farming is a terrible business to be in today, but that's mainly du

You'd be better off doing the farming the old fashioned way if the goal is to feed a family. Farming is a terrible business to be in today, but that's mainly due to the abysmal profit margins. When your goal is to feed your family rather than turn a profit, that stops mattering. Most people with any yard or outdoor space could get to the point of growing/raising a large portion of their own food without too much investment or work. A garden doesn't have to be manicured and ready for Instagram, it just needs to produce quality food. Meat and dairy would be the outlier lowering that % if you eat a lot of it, though chickens work well with a modest sized yard and finding a local dairy or farm for meat is still a big improvement on grocery store meat and dairy.

Loughla 2y ago
I've talked about this on this site over the years. My family is close to providing enough food on its own little farm for the whole family, all year (except dairy products and wheat products). It has taken decades. And about 15 acres. And honestly I don't know how many hours. Tens and tens of thousands. You can grow a small amount of your own food "without too much investment or work". To replace a substantial portion of your food with home grown takes a shit load of work and time.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  That's interesting, I've had a very different experience. Maybe it comes down, partially, to a difference in climate? We're on a larger piece of land actually, mainly because we have cattle that we may eventually use for meat and dairy. Were producing a large chunk of our food on about 1 acre though, and even then most of that is non-productive land around our house. We have chickens that give us 6-7 eggs every day. Our garden is 2,500 square feet but well be expanding it a bit for next year. We're very hands off with our garden, though, compared to how most people do it. We don't till, partly to avoid any potential disturbance to the soil and partly out of laziness. We did have to water too much for a couple weeks in June, but that is about it for this year. We haven't hit the 80-90% goal yet but are on track for that next year, our third year here. Right now I'd estimate us at around 40-50% with the rest supplemented mainly from local farms. It is work, no doubt about it, especially if you aren't used to working outside. I haven't yet felt like the amount of work has blown past what it costs to buy groceries from the store though, and bonus that we know it's all local without any pesticide or herbicide use. We live in the southeast US now, the climate is helpful for farming. I lived in Seattle for a few years and that climate would have been much harder to work with. I don't particularly like the task of preserving foods, here we don't need to do nearly as much of that.
  - zamfi 2y ago
    > We live in the southeast US now, the climate is helpful for farming. I lived in Seattle for a few years and that climate would have been much harder to work with. Because of (a lack of) winter sunlight? Or something else?
    - _heimdall 2y ago
      A combination of a shorter growing season and less rainfall. Seattle has an interesting rap for being extremely rainy, but their average rainfall is around 38 inches while I get around 60 inches per year here. We've had cattle on the land with us for the last two years, and though we have had to buy in hay its has been to supplement for 2-3 months rather than 5-6 months. We actually have the pasture space to grow and cut our own hay, that's just a comparatively big investment that we haven't taken on yet but is on the list to next year. We don't own a tractor and aren't interested in getting one. That is our main blocker for producing our own hay, today everyone assumes you have a heavy tractor and all the implements needed to do the job.
      - hattmall 2y ago
        Also in the southeast, and it should be pretty easy to find someone to come and bail your hay for you and take a percentage of the hay for themselves. I believe we do 9 acres, and get two harvests. After splitting it with the bailer that's still enough to feed about 25 head of cattle through the year. Though we do supplement with some feed for nutrition reasons. (Our Nutrition, not the cows, we eat them). Late in season the bailers will also typically bring us free hay too because they will cut some fields and have extra. You would still likely need a tractor to move the hay though but you might could figure something out with a trailer. Look for the market bulletin in your area if you haven't already subscribed.
        _heimdall 2y ago
        Yep, all of that is definitely on the table. Our first year on this property we actually did talk with someone about cutting hay on a 50:50 split. He used to lease this land and built most of the fences that are still here. It didn't end up working out that summer but we're keeping that in our back pocket for later. As far as moving hay goes, we have bough square bails the last two years and aren't afraid of hauling it around by hand. If we bring someone in to cut and bail hay wed probably just spend around the same amount the first year around to buy a round bail trailer we could pull with an ATV or mini truck.
- stevekemp 2y ago
  Hell I figured I eat about one onion a week, and one whole garlic bulb. I planted 75 onions and 40 garlic bulbs expecting that that would keep me going for a year. Not even close. Between some of them dying, many of them producing tiny output, and the difficulty of keeping them stored I exhausted my harvest in about four months. I have a small patch of land, 10m x 10m, and I grow potatoes, garlic, cucumbers, and similar things. But I quickly realized I would never become self-sufficient, not unless I dedicated the whole patch of land to 100% potatoes, which would be far less fun and start to feel like work.
  - timeon 2y ago
    > one onion a week Interesting. Where I'm from (CEE), this would be about one onion per one or two days.
- nathancahill 2y ago
  I grew up in a family of 6, we had a 1 acre garden and 3 acres for goats and sheep, 2 acres of fruit trees. Yes, it was a full-time job for my parents, but we canned and froze everything for the winter and only went to the store for sacks of flour. It's possible to do on less land. It took about 5 years to get to the point of sustainability.
SoftTalker 2y ago
It doesn't need to be ready for Instagram but you need to keep weeds under control, you need to keep insects under control, and you need to keep deer, rabbits, and other veggie-loving animals away or barricaded. You also need to provide irrigation when needed, and of course harvest the vegetables when they are ready. It's quite a bit of work if you want to maximize your harvest. Any kind of serious vegetable garden probably demands at least an hour a day of your time, large gardens may require much more than that.
- _heimdall 2y ago
  Its all in expectations I guess. We have been focusing on balancing yield with investment. If we can get half the production for a quarter of the work, we'll take that trade off. We've actually been running a test this year that has been interesting to watch play out. Our garden isn't very dense comparatively, and its planted into what was pasture before. We did cut the grass when planting and have trimmed it a few times, but its far from a garden free of weeds. We also planted a space along the lines of a milpa or a chaos garden. We planted corn in rows, untilled and effectively just a grass pasture that we clipped short to start. When the corn germinated we followed behind with a variety of beans, peas, squash, and greens. It isn't nearly as productive per foot as it could be, but we haven't put much time into it beyond planting and a few deep waterings during a drought. I think an hour a day is a totally reasonable expectation. To me that's worth it, but that wouldn't work for everyone and finding an hour a day may not be an easy ask depending on your lifestyle. I would argue, though, that if it isn't worth an hour a day to you you probably aren't too concerned with growing a large portion of your own food.

Loughla 2y ago

I've talked about this on this site over the years. My family is close to providing enough food on its own little farm for the whole family, all year (except dairy products and wheat products). It has taken decades. And about 15 acres. And honestly I don't know how many hours. Tens and tens of thousands. You can grow a small amount of your own food "without too much investment or work". To replace a substantial portion of your food with home grown takes a shit load of work and time.

_heimdall 2y ago
That's interesting, I've had a very different experience. Maybe it comes down, partially, to a difference in climate? We're on a larger piece of land actually, mainly because we have cattle that we may eventually use for meat and dairy. Were producing a large chunk of our food on about 1 acre though, and even then most of that is non-productive land around our house. We have chickens that give us 6-7 eggs every day. Our garden is 2,500 square feet but well be expanding it a bit for next year. We're very hands off with our garden, though, compared to how most people do it. We don't till, partly to avoid any potential disturbance to the soil and partly out of laziness. We did have to water too much for a couple weeks in June, but that is about it for this year. We haven't hit the 80-90% goal yet but are on track for that next year, our third year here. Right now I'd estimate us at around 40-50% with the rest supplemented mainly from local farms. It is work, no doubt about it, especially if you aren't used to working outside. I haven't yet felt like the amount of work has blown past what it costs to buy groceries from the store though, and bonus that we know it's all local without any pesticide or herbicide use. We live in the southeast US now, the climate is helpful for farming. I lived in Seattle for a few years and that climate would have been much harder to work with. I don't particularly like the task of preserving foods, here we don't need to do nearly as much of that.
- zamfi 2y ago
  > We live in the southeast US now, the climate is helpful for farming. I lived in Seattle for a few years and that climate would have been much harder to work with. Because of (a lack of) winter sunlight? Or something else?
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    A combination of a shorter growing season and less rainfall. Seattle has an interesting rap for being extremely rainy, but their average rainfall is around 38 inches while I get around 60 inches per year here. We've had cattle on the land with us for the last two years, and though we have had to buy in hay its has been to supplement for 2-3 months rather than 5-6 months. We actually have the pasture space to grow and cut our own hay, that's just a comparatively big investment that we haven't taken on yet but is on the list to next year. We don't own a tractor and aren't interested in getting one. That is our main blocker for producing our own hay, today everyone assumes you have a heavy tractor and all the implements needed to do the job.
    - hattmall 2y ago
      Also in the southeast, and it should be pretty easy to find someone to come and bail your hay for you and take a percentage of the hay for themselves. I believe we do 9 acres, and get two harvests. After splitting it with the bailer that's still enough to feed about 25 head of cattle through the year. Though we do supplement with some feed for nutrition reasons. (Our Nutrition, not the cows, we eat them). Late in season the bailers will also typically bring us free hay too because they will cut some fields and have extra. You would still likely need a tractor to move the hay though but you might could figure something out with a trailer. Look for the market bulletin in your area if you haven't already subscribed.
      - _heimdall 2y ago
        Yep, all of that is definitely on the table. Our first year on this property we actually did talk with someone about cutting hay on a 50:50 split. He used to lease this land and built most of the fences that are still here. It didn't end up working out that summer but we're keeping that in our back pocket for later. As far as moving hay goes, we have bough square bails the last two years and aren't afraid of hauling it around by hand. If we bring someone in to cut and bail hay wed probably just spend around the same amount the first year around to buy a round bail trailer we could pull with an ATV or mini truck.
stevekemp 2y ago
Hell I figured I eat about one onion a week, and one whole garlic bulb. I planted 75 onions and 40 garlic bulbs expecting that that would keep me going for a year. Not even close. Between some of them dying, many of them producing tiny output, and the difficulty of keeping them stored I exhausted my harvest in about four months. I have a small patch of land, 10m x 10m, and I grow potatoes, garlic, cucumbers, and similar things. But I quickly realized I would never become self-sufficient, not unless I dedicated the whole patch of land to 100% potatoes, which would be far less fun and start to feel like work.
- timeon 2y ago
  > one onion a week Interesting. Where I'm from (CEE), this would be about one onion per one or two days.
nathancahill 2y ago
I grew up in a family of 6, we had a 1 acre garden and 3 acres for goats and sheep, 2 acres of fruit trees. Yes, it was a full-time job for my parents, but we canned and froze everything for the winter and only went to the store for sacks of flour. It's possible to do on less land. It took about 5 years to get to the point of sustainability.

SoftTalker 2y ago

It doesn't need to be ready for Instagram but you need to keep weeds under control, you need to keep insects under control, and you need to keep deer, rabbits, and other veggie-loving animals away or barricaded. You also need to provide irrigation when needed, and of course harvest the vegetables when they are ready. It's quite a bit of work if you want to maximize your harvest. Any kind of serious vegetable garden probably demands at least an hour a day of your time, large gardens may require much more than that.

_heimdall 2y ago
Its all in expectations I guess. We have been focusing on balancing yield with investment. If we can get half the production for a quarter of the work, we'll take that trade off. We've actually been running a test this year that has been interesting to watch play out. Our garden isn't very dense comparatively, and its planted into what was pasture before. We did cut the grass when planting and have trimmed it a few times, but its far from a garden free of weeds. We also planted a space along the lines of a milpa or a chaos garden. We planted corn in rows, untilled and effectively just a grass pasture that we clipped short to start. When the corn germinated we followed behind with a variety of beans, peas, squash, and greens. It isn't nearly as productive per foot as it could be, but we haven't put much time into it beyond planting and a few deep waterings during a drought. I think an hour a day is a totally reasonable expectation. To me that's worth it, but that wouldn't work for everyone and finding an hour a day may not be an easy ask depending on your lifestyle. I would argue, though, that if it isn't worth an hour a day to you you probably aren't too concerned with growing a large portion of your own food.