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> It's technically impossible to solve It's not technically impossible to solve. Humans drive with vision, audio, and balance inputs, so in extremis if you w

> It's technically impossible to solve It's not technically impossible to solve. Humans drive with vision, audio, and balance inputs, so in extremis if you want a self-driving car you can hire a chauffeur. However, no matter how easy or difficult it is to drive with vision alone, more data is better: driving with vision plus lidar will be easier. Tesla's mistake seems to be relentless optimism. If self driving were simple, then it'd be here today and the market would be competing on how to add it to cars with minimal additional cost. There, the data-light method would have an advantage. Yet self-driving is not in fact here, and for equal capital investments a company like Waymo using sensor fusion will probably get there before Tesla.

ben_w 2y ago
The obvious counterpoint being that while humans can drive cars, part of the narrative for self-driving AI is how often we crash them and kill people in the process, and one of the advantages an AI could have is integration of so many more sensor modalities than mere humans. (Other advantages, such as "never gets drunk, tired, or distracted" would still apply, but are not necessarily sufficient).
viraptor 2y ago
> Humans drive with vision, audio, and balance input And they also make mistakes. Human driving is "impossible to solve" too. And it's not even about experience and individual abilities. Visual illusions can happen to anyone if they're unlucky - one night I had to convince myself to drive "into the wall", because my brain decided the hole under a bridge was a wall and the bridge was empty space due to colours being just right. You can't avoid that whether the driving system is software or wetware.
- genewitch 2y ago
  tesla et al don't "remember" anything, whereas we do. For you to think there was actually a wall there you'd have to assume you either missed the signs saying the road was closed or someone had stolen all the signs and you're the first person to be caught in their trap. a self driving (or even self-stopping/accident avoidant) car does not remember it didn't see any signs saying road closure, it can only go off what is in front of it. whenever i watch the videos of the FSD screen in traffic, you see things popping in and out of existence. This, to me, is why "FSD" cannot be better than a human, even with advanced sensors. Maybe if all cars were networked, but guess what, i will never own one, i'll buy old cars until they outlaw it, and then i'll probably sit in my house and wait to die. But until "non-network equipped cars are banned nationwide for any purpose" what do you propose? Also this was on the front page on my phone's app, but it wasn't on the first 5 pages on the website - is this whitewashing by someone at HN or what?
whoitwas 2y ago
So Tesla's business model will be to hire each driver a chauffeur? And somehow that's robotaxi tech? It's more probably than the current hardware succeeding.

ben_w 2y ago

The obvious counterpoint being that while humans can drive cars, part of the narrative for self-driving AI is how often we crash them and kill people in the process, and one of the advantages an AI could have is integration of so many more sensor modalities than mere humans. (Other advantages, such as "never gets drunk, tired, or distracted" would still apply, but are not necessarily sufficient).

viraptor 2y ago

> Humans drive with vision, audio, and balance input And they also make mistakes. Human driving is "impossible to solve" too. And it's not even about experience and individual abilities. Visual illusions can happen to anyone if they're unlucky - one night I had to convince myself to drive "into the wall", because my brain decided the hole under a bridge was a wall and the bridge was empty space due to colours being just right. You can't avoid that whether the driving system is software or wetware.

genewitch 2y ago
tesla et al don't "remember" anything, whereas we do. For you to think there was actually a wall there you'd have to assume you either missed the signs saying the road was closed or someone had stolen all the signs and you're the first person to be caught in their trap. a self driving (or even self-stopping/accident avoidant) car does not remember it didn't see any signs saying road closure, it can only go off what is in front of it. whenever i watch the videos of the FSD screen in traffic, you see things popping in and out of existence. This, to me, is why "FSD" cannot be better than a human, even with advanced sensors. Maybe if all cars were networked, but guess what, i will never own one, i'll buy old cars until they outlaw it, and then i'll probably sit in my house and wait to die. But until "non-network equipped cars are banned nationwide for any purpose" what do you propose? Also this was on the front page on my phone's app, but it wasn't on the first 5 pages on the website - is this whitewashing by someone at HN or what?

whoitwas 2y ago

So Tesla's business model will be to hire each driver a chauffeur? And somehow that's robotaxi tech? It's more probably than the current hardware succeeding.