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It was normal for the Vikings/Scandinavian population to come to the Black Sea, it wasn't "al the way"/far, because in terms of river transport that was one of

It was normal for the Vikings/Scandinavian population to come to the Black Sea, it wasn't "al the way"/far, because in terms of river transport that was one of the fastest ways to travel over large continental distances. And thanks to the Dnieper and the smaller rivers North of the Pripyat Marshes that journey was nothing out of the ordinary for those populations. In the opposite direction (i.e. from South to North) there's this famous travel of Ahmad ibn Fadlan who wrote about the Vikings living on the Southern part of the Volga. > His account is most notable for providing a detailed description of the Volga Vikings, including eyewitness accounts of life as part of a trade caravan and witnessing a ship burial. I've read the French translation of his work (Voyage chez les Bulgares de la Volga [2]) and I have to say that it is quite interesting. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Fadlan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_ibn_Fadlan [2] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyage_chez_les_Bulgares_de_la_Volga https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyage_chez_les_Bulgares_de_la...

trhway 2y ago
>it wasn't "al the way"/far, because in terms of river transport that was one of the fastest ways to travel the map i linked to isn't "travel", it is "settlements". They settled as far as Black Sea and traveled even farther, like the South Volga you mentioned and even raided Iran shores of the Caspian Sea.
- paganel 2y ago
  I sea now. I have very big doubts about the Vikings settling for good and, what it is more important, in big enough numbers as to “cause” the coloring of a big portion of the map North of the Black Sea around the 10th-11th century, for the simple reason that that was Khazar and then Pecheneg and then Cuman territory, i.e. mostly Turkic populations. As a matter of fact Azov itself is a Turkic toponym, as is Bakhmut. There were some Scandinavians there but in the middle of other, more numerous , populations
  - sklargh 2y ago
    I sea what you did there.
  - trhway 2y ago
    >I have very big doubts about the Vikings settling for good and, what it is more important, in big enough numbers as to “cause” the coloring of a big portion of the map North of the Black Sea around the 10th-11th century, for the simple reason that that was Khazar and then Pecheneg and then Cuman territory, i.e. mostly Turkic populations. There were not much people to start with (and 500 ships in a raid is a like 5000-10000+ warriors which is larger then many cities at the time), and you're mixing 2 types of populations - all those people were nomadic dry land people while Vikings were settling along their trading and raiding routes along rivers and sea shores. The Azov Sea and the Don river were on their route into Caspian Sea. Vikings even tried, yet failed, to settle further into Caucasus : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_expeditions_of_the_Rus%27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_expeditions_of_the_Rus... "The Rus' launched the first large-scale raid in 913. A fleet of 500 ships reached the southern shores of the Caspian Sea through the country of the Khazars. .... They sailed down the Dnieper River into the Black Sea, then into the Sea of Azov, then up the Don River past the Khazar city of Sarkel, and then by a portage reached the Volga, which led them into the Caspian Sea.[8]" "During the 943 expedition, the Rus' rowed up the Kura River, deep into the Caucasus, defeated the forces of Marzuban bin Muhammad,[11] and captured Bardha'a, the capital of Arran. The Rus' allowed the local people to retain their religion in exchange for recognition of their overlordship; it is possible that the Rus' intended to settle permanently there.[12] According to ibn Miskawaih, the local people broke the peace by stone-throwing and other abuse directed against the Rus', who then demanded that the inhabitants evacuate the city. This ultimatum was rejected, and the Rus' began killing people and holding many for ransom. The slaughter was briefly interrupted for negotiations, which soon broke down.[13] The Rus' stayed in Bardha'a for several months,[14] using it as a base for plundering the adjacent areas, and amassing substantial spoils.[15]"

trhway 2y ago

>it wasn't "al the way"/far, because in terms of river transport that was one of the fastest ways to travel the map i linked to isn't "travel", it is "settlements". They settled as far as Black Sea and traveled even farther, like the South Volga you mentioned and even raided Iran shores of the Caspian Sea.

paganel 2y ago
I sea now. I have very big doubts about the Vikings settling for good and, what it is more important, in big enough numbers as to “cause” the coloring of a big portion of the map North of the Black Sea around the 10th-11th century, for the simple reason that that was Khazar and then Pecheneg and then Cuman territory, i.e. mostly Turkic populations. As a matter of fact Azov itself is a Turkic toponym, as is Bakhmut. There were some Scandinavians there but in the middle of other, more numerous , populations
- sklargh 2y ago
  I sea what you did there.
- trhway 2y ago
  >I have very big doubts about the Vikings settling for good and, what it is more important, in big enough numbers as to “cause” the coloring of a big portion of the map North of the Black Sea around the 10th-11th century, for the simple reason that that was Khazar and then Pecheneg and then Cuman territory, i.e. mostly Turkic populations. There were not much people to start with (and 500 ships in a raid is a like 5000-10000+ warriors which is larger then many cities at the time), and you're mixing 2 types of populations - all those people were nomadic dry land people while Vikings were settling along their trading and raiding routes along rivers and sea shores. The Azov Sea and the Don river were on their route into Caspian Sea. Vikings even tried, yet failed, to settle further into Caucasus : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_expeditions_of_the_Rus%27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspian_expeditions_of_the_Rus... "The Rus' launched the first large-scale raid in 913. A fleet of 500 ships reached the southern shores of the Caspian Sea through the country of the Khazars. .... They sailed down the Dnieper River into the Black Sea, then into the Sea of Azov, then up the Don River past the Khazar city of Sarkel, and then by a portage reached the Volga, which led them into the Caspian Sea.[8]" "During the 943 expedition, the Rus' rowed up the Kura River, deep into the Caucasus, defeated the forces of Marzuban bin Muhammad,[11] and captured Bardha'a, the capital of Arran. The Rus' allowed the local people to retain their religion in exchange for recognition of their overlordship; it is possible that the Rus' intended to settle permanently there.[12] According to ibn Miskawaih, the local people broke the peace by stone-throwing and other abuse directed against the Rus', who then demanded that the inhabitants evacuate the city. This ultimatum was rejected, and the Rus' began killing people and holding many for ransom. The slaughter was briefly interrupted for negotiations, which soon broke down.[13] The Rus' stayed in Bardha'a for several months,[14] using it as a base for plundering the adjacent areas, and amassing substantial spoils.[15]"