3 ms·

Building a 10BASE5 Thick Ethernet Network (2012)

39 points by userbinator 2y ago

neilv 2y ago
> One notable feature is the slide locking mechanism used in place of the usual UNC 4-40 screws. It is my personal opinion that the design of this mechanism is a bit daft. I saw these slide-lock connectors used with 10BASE-2 coax Ethernet, on some Unix workstations I worked on as a teen intern (Sun, etc.), and I always wondered whether I was doing something wrong. For starters, it'd often be a headache just to push the slide. (See the photos, and imagine the transceiver box up against a recess in the back of a heavy workstation chassis, and now you're somehow going to have to get your fingers into there, and with enough strength to push the slide the full travel, while holding the transceiver on firmly. Sometimes I'd have to use a screwdriver to push.) Then, if you manage to slide it, it usually wouldn't hold. For reasons unclear, since it often wasn't very visible. Some of them were surely bent. Others mysteriously didn't look bent, but didn't hold, even though you got a click of the slide, and the slide seemed to be in the locked position, with the transceiver seemed to br pressed on. Contrast with the many D-sub connectors on PCs at the time, of both smaller and larger sizes, where they'd just press on, and usually tight enough to stay in place. Or you could used the screws (thumbscrews, or the tiny screwdriver heads), which held very well, with less effort than the slide-lock. Thankfully, every place since then, we've just done the still-familiar twisted pair with RJ45 connectors, fiber, or WiFi. Did anyone like the AUI ("owie") transceiver slide locks, or know how to make them work?
- NordSteve 2y ago
  I hated those slide d connectors. It was very common to have mechanical stress on the connector and just mixing the machine a bit would often cause it to disconnect.
KaiserPro 2y ago
My dad installed a base-t network for our 386 machines. The cards he used (I assume 3com) had the AUI media converter din port on them. I asked him what they were for, and he said "something really expensive", and given the size of the coax, I can see his point.
- toast0 2y ago
  Could also have been refering to fiber transceivers. I never saw any 10base5 in the field, but we had a lot of 10base2 at my high school, and then 10baseT almost everywhere else, but I did see a few AUI fiber transceivers here and there.
johnklos 2y ago
The old equipment is fascinating. Ethernet makes for a wonderful look in to how hundreds of companies can actually make interoperable hardware, with various media types and varying methods, and it can all Just Work™ (mostly). I still use 10base2 with some old machines, and I still have machines that have and use AUI, and if I had the space, I'd probably set up a 10base5 network, in part to show the kids (and by kids, I mean anyone 40-something and younger). That these machines and devices can be connected to the same ethernet networks that're doing gigabit, 2.5 gigabit and even 10 gigabit really should be impressive to anyone that thinks about it for a minute. What other technologies have lasted so long and have gone through multiple generations and still interoperate with their predecessors? I do think it's funny that OP can crash their Cisco Catalyst. It just goes to show that edge cases can always be handled better. Similarly, I have some ethernet-over-powerline adapters from Radio Shack from... No idea, but they're old, and they're 10 Mbps only. I can plug them in to a network, try to transfer as much data as possible across them, and give any switch or router a real workout. When those collision LEDs are brightly lit from heavy use, the fanciest of routers will exhibit all sorts of slowdowns :)
- userbinator 2y ago
  I think xBASE-T with the 8P8C has the most compatibility; it's 30+ years old and bandwidth has increased a few orders of magnitude, yet you can still connect a late 80s PC and one from 2024 with a single cable and communicate between them.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  I wonder if it's really the network traffic that crashed it or some kind of ground loop interference.
wkat4242 2y ago
Very interesting story. I never dealt with 10Base5 or Token Ring or Twinax or those kinds of old networking stuff. 10Base2 yes, which was a PITA. We're pretty lucky these days (even though the CAT7 with spacers and all is pretty hard to connect).
EvanAnderson 2y ago
Never got to work with 10BASE5. I did do some work in an auto parts supplier who had a private CATV network in their plant and had a 10BROAD36 network[0]. They used it as backhaul out to IDFs that supplied 10BASE-T to end stations. I worked on a project to replace the 10BROAD36 with 100BASE-FX connections. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BROAD36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BROAD36
- metadat 2y ago
  Did it look different?
  - EvanAnderson 2y ago
    It ran over the CATV cable (RG-58?) and each IDF had a switch (or a hub-- not sure) that had an AUI connection (DB-15) that was plugged-in to a transceiver and, finally, into a 10Base-T switch port in the IDF. There were routers at the head-end of the CATV system that connected the various IDF segments back to the plant network. (I believe there were multiple "channels" being used to group various different IDFs into separate 10Mbps collision domains. I didn't put any of that gear in but I remember seeing a diagram that gave me this feeling.)
metadat 2y ago
The custom 2-chip board is quite intricate and beautiful: https://techmattmillman.s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/axaui_proto_tn.jpg https://techmattmillman.s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com... Soldering skills.
Lammy 2y ago
For anyone else who didn't know what SQE meant since it wasn't explained: http://www.ethermanage.com/ethernet/sqe/sqe.html http://www.ethermanage.com/ethernet/sqe/sqe.html > I chose Cabletron ST-500’s, because they have blinky lights. Hell yeah.
hcfman 2y ago
Very nice to see this. And I’m happy to get the feeling of recognition on these. I worked with thick Ethernet circa 1988 when working for Reuters. I had a contract that involved network debugging for their triarch network architecture using Hewlett packard network analysers which which you could program packet capture filters. Thick as hell were those cables.

39 points by userbinator 2y ago

> One notable feature is the slide locking mechanism used in place of the usual UNC 4-40 screws. It is my personal opinion that the design of this mechanism is a bit daft. I saw these slide-lock connectors used with 10BASE-2 coax Ethernet, on some Unix workstations I worked on as a teen intern (Sun, etc.), and I always wondered whether I was doing something wrong. For starters, it'd often be a headache just to push the slide. (See the photos, and imagine the transceiver box up against a recess in the back of a heavy workstation chassis, and now you're somehow going to have to get your fingers into there, and with enough strength to push the slide the full travel, while holding the transceiver on firmly. Sometimes I'd have to use a screwdriver to push.) Then, if you manage to slide it, it usually wouldn't hold. For reasons unclear, since it often wasn't very visible. Some of them were surely bent. Others mysteriously didn't look bent, but didn't hold, even though you got a click of the slide, and the slide seemed to be in the locked position, with the transceiver seemed to br pressed on. Contrast with the many D-sub connectors on PCs at the time, of both smaller and larger sizes, where they'd just press on, and usually tight enough to stay in place. Or you could used the screws (thumbscrews, or the tiny screwdriver heads), which held very well, with less effort than the slide-lock. Thankfully, every place since then, we've just done the still-familiar twisted pair with RJ45 connectors, fiber, or WiFi. Did anyone like the AUI ("owie") transceiver slide locks, or know how to make them work?

NordSteve 2y ago
I hated those slide d connectors. It was very common to have mechanical stress on the connector and just mixing the machine a bit would often cause it to disconnect.

KaiserPro 2y ago

My dad installed a base-t network for our 386 machines. The cards he used (I assume 3com) had the AUI media converter din port on them. I asked him what they were for, and he said "something really expensive", and given the size of the coax, I can see his point.

toast0 2y ago
Could also have been refering to fiber transceivers. I never saw any 10base5 in the field, but we had a lot of 10base2 at my high school, and then 10baseT almost everywhere else, but I did see a few AUI fiber transceivers here and there.

johnklos 2y ago

The old equipment is fascinating. Ethernet makes for a wonderful look in to how hundreds of companies can actually make interoperable hardware, with various media types and varying methods, and it can all Just Work™ (mostly). I still use 10base2 with some old machines, and I still have machines that have and use AUI, and if I had the space, I'd probably set up a 10base5 network, in part to show the kids (and by kids, I mean anyone 40-something and younger). That these machines and devices can be connected to the same ethernet networks that're doing gigabit, 2.5 gigabit and even 10 gigabit really should be impressive to anyone that thinks about it for a minute. What other technologies have lasted so long and have gone through multiple generations and still interoperate with their predecessors? I do think it's funny that OP can crash their Cisco Catalyst. It just goes to show that edge cases can always be handled better. Similarly, I have some ethernet-over-powerline adapters from Radio Shack from... No idea, but they're old, and they're 10 Mbps only. I can plug them in to a network, try to transfer as much data as possible across them, and give any switch or router a real workout. When those collision LEDs are brightly lit from heavy use, the fanciest of routers will exhibit all sorts of slowdowns :)

userbinator 2y ago
I think xBASE-T with the 8P8C has the most compatibility; it's 30+ years old and bandwidth has increased a few orders of magnitude, yet you can still connect a late 80s PC and one from 2024 with a single cable and communicate between them.
wkat4242 2y ago
I wonder if it's really the network traffic that crashed it or some kind of ground loop interference.

wkat4242 2y ago

Very interesting story. I never dealt with 10Base5 or Token Ring or Twinax or those kinds of old networking stuff. 10Base2 yes, which was a PITA. We're pretty lucky these days (even though the CAT7 with spacers and all is pretty hard to connect).

EvanAnderson 2y ago

Never got to work with 10BASE5. I did do some work in an auto parts supplier who had a private CATV network in their plant and had a 10BROAD36 network[0]. They used it as backhaul out to IDFs that supplied 10BASE-T to end stations. I worked on a project to replace the 10BROAD36 with 100BASE-FX connections. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BROAD36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10BROAD36

metadat 2y ago
Did it look different?
- EvanAnderson 2y ago
  It ran over the CATV cable (RG-58?) and each IDF had a switch (or a hub-- not sure) that had an AUI connection (DB-15) that was plugged-in to a transceiver and, finally, into a 10Base-T switch port in the IDF. There were routers at the head-end of the CATV system that connected the various IDF segments back to the plant network. (I believe there were multiple "channels" being used to group various different IDFs into separate 10Mbps collision domains. I didn't put any of that gear in but I remember seeing a diagram that gave me this feeling.)

metadat 2y ago

The custom 2-chip board is quite intricate and beautiful: https://techmattmillman.s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/axaui_proto_tn.jpg https://techmattmillman.s3.dualstack.us-east-1.amazonaws.com... Soldering skills.

Lammy 2y ago

For anyone else who didn't know what SQE meant since it wasn't explained: http://www.ethermanage.com/ethernet/sqe/sqe.html http://www.ethermanage.com/ethernet/sqe/sqe.html > I chose Cabletron ST-500’s, because they have blinky lights. Hell yeah.

hcfman 2y ago

Very nice to see this. And I’m happy to get the feeling of recognition on these. I worked with thick Ethernet circa 1988 when working for Reuters. I had a contract that involved network debugging for their triarch network architecture using Hewlett packard network analysers which which you could program packet capture filters. Thick as hell were those cables.