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It's perhaps a little like holding your hand up in front of one of your eyes but not the other. It "blocks" your vision, but you can still see behind it. I don

It's perhaps a little like holding your hand up in front of one of your eyes but not the other. It "blocks" your vision, but you can still see behind it. I don't personally have such a vivid visual imagination, but there are moments when it can feel like that — I won't know what I was physically looking at because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image that obscured my awareness of the real world, to a degree.

listenallyall 2y ago
> I won't know what I was physically looking at because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image Like the guy above, you should not be allowed to drive a vehicle.
- empiricus 2y ago
  Alternatively, if I am physically able to close my eyes during driving then I should not be allowed to drive?
  - listenallyall 2y ago
    If you are unable to prevent your eyes from closing, yes, absolutely
    - OJFord 2y ago
      No blinking allowed while driving?
    - Kiro 2y ago
      You seem really angry that people are able to do this.
      - listenallyall 2y ago
        > I won't know what I was physically looking at > obscured my awareness of the real world Yes - because these are the same symptoms as someone who drives drunk and kills someone - "didn't see anybody walking there" (= unable to tell what you're looking at) "just a little buzzed" (= obscured awareness of reality) "I don't know what happened" (same)
        archerx 2y ago
        You seem to have left out "because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image" which is very convenient for your strawman argument. As noted, it takes a lot of concentration to maintain these visuals and it's not something you can do while multitasking. Imagine you are day dreaming and a friend waves at you but you didn't notice because you were lost in the dream. Maybe you don't get it because you are incapable of visualization but saying it's like being drunk is incredibly stupid and ignorant.
        listenallyall 2y ago
        He doesn't say anything about it being voluntary or not. Day-dreaming isn't voluntary, that's why your friend can awkwardly interrupt you with a wave (as opposed to turning out the lights and closing the door which would be indicative of purposely napping/sleeping). In any case, people often get into heavy conversations while driving, especially on cell phones. Work-related, family-related (also, audiobooks), whether or not you choose to acknowledge it, people do get into "deep concentration" mode while driving, the difference is that most of us don't claim to actually see images in front of us while thinking of them.
        interroboink 2y ago
        Bit of a thread since my initial comment (: Just to clear some things up, in case anyone cares: (1) It is largely voluntary, what I tried to describe. Just like choosing to focus on your phone or the kids in the back seat while driving is voluntary. All of those are, of course, bad things to do. A good driver controls themselves — imagination included. I wouldn't especially trust a driver's reaction time in "deep concentration" mode whether or not they were making pictures in their head, so I guess I don't see (ha) a big distinction. Though actually, for me I find it harder to do mental visualization when there's a lot of real eyball visuals going on, as when driving. I have an easier time with a static background. Perhaps other people are different. (2) I find that day-dreaming is somewhat voluntary, too. It can happen on its own, but it can also be a choice, like choosing to meditate. I don't understand your point about how someone else's ability to interrupt you makes it non-voluntary. (3) I didn't mean to say I "see images in front of me." They are actually distinctly not in front of me — not outside my body. They live in a different space, if you will.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- kolinko 2y ago
  99% of people have this ability to visualise. And yeah, it’s crazy that they are allowed to drive! Isn’t it distracting? Seeing stuff in front of you when you should be looking at the road?
  - archerx 2y ago
    No, because it doesn't happen randomly, it requires concentration and focus. Having random hallucinations is called schizophrenia. Mental visualization is not like that at all.

listenallyall 2y ago

> I won't know what I was physically looking at because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image Like the guy above, you should not be allowed to drive a vehicle.

empiricus 2y ago
Alternatively, if I am physically able to close my eyes during driving then I should not be allowed to drive?
- listenallyall 2y ago
  If you are unable to prevent your eyes from closing, yes, absolutely
  - OJFord 2y ago
    No blinking allowed while driving?
  - Kiro 2y ago
    You seem really angry that people are able to do this.
    - listenallyall 2y ago
      > I won't know what I was physically looking at > obscured my awareness of the real world Yes - because these are the same symptoms as someone who drives drunk and kills someone - "didn't see anybody walking there" (= unable to tell what you're looking at) "just a little buzzed" (= obscured awareness of reality) "I don't know what happened" (same)
      - archerx 2y ago
        You seem to have left out "because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image" which is very convenient for your strawman argument. As noted, it takes a lot of concentration to maintain these visuals and it's not something you can do while multitasking. Imagine you are day dreaming and a friend waves at you but you didn't notice because you were lost in the dream. Maybe you don't get it because you are incapable of visualization but saying it's like being drunk is incredibly stupid and ignorant.
        listenallyall 2y ago
        He doesn't say anything about it being voluntary or not. Day-dreaming isn't voluntary, that's why your friend can awkwardly interrupt you with a wave (as opposed to turning out the lights and closing the door which would be indicative of purposely napping/sleeping). In any case, people often get into heavy conversations while driving, especially on cell phones. Work-related, family-related (also, audiobooks), whether or not you choose to acknowledge it, people do get into "deep concentration" mode while driving, the difference is that most of us don't claim to actually see images in front of us while thinking of them.
        interroboink 2y ago
        Bit of a thread since my initial comment (: Just to clear some things up, in case anyone cares: (1) It is largely voluntary, what I tried to describe. Just like choosing to focus on your phone or the kids in the back seat while driving is voluntary. All of those are, of course, bad things to do. A good driver controls themselves — imagination included. I wouldn't especially trust a driver's reaction time in "deep concentration" mode whether or not they were making pictures in their head, so I guess I don't see (ha) a big distinction. Though actually, for me I find it harder to do mental visualization when there's a lot of real eyball visuals going on, as when driving. I have an easier time with a static background. Perhaps other people are different. (2) I find that day-dreaming is somewhat voluntary, too. It can happen on its own, but it can also be a choice, like choosing to meditate. I don't understand your point about how someone else's ability to interrupt you makes it non-voluntary. (3) I didn't mean to say I "see images in front of me." They are actually distinctly not in front of me — not outside my body. They live in a different space, if you will.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
kolinko 2y ago
99% of people have this ability to visualise. And yeah, it’s crazy that they are allowed to drive! Isn’t it distracting? Seeing stuff in front of you when you should be looking at the road?
- archerx 2y ago
  No, because it doesn't happen randomly, it requires concentration and focus. Having random hallucinations is called schizophrenia. Mental visualization is not like that at all.