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The barrier to being an ISP is literally owning a wire that connects to everyone's house. That's the exact opposite of a low barrier to entry. It's a natural mo

The barrier to being an ISP is literally owning a wire that connects to everyone's house. That's the exact opposite of a low barrier to entry. It's a natural monopoly.

fragmede 2y ago
That's not strictly true these days, given that T-Mobile offers home Internet access via 5G and also Starlink, though neither of them are a replacement for a hard line.
- genewitch 2y ago
  neither tmo nor starlink work where i live. tmo would need to spend money to serve me, and i'd need to spend thousands of dollars or rent a bulldozer and learn to use it to clear trees. Fixed wireless would work if it wasn't on the 2ghz+ bands (i know because i had this, too, until at&t canceled both versions)
drdaeman 2y ago
Wait, do you mean ISPs in the US don’t need licenses and/or permits for the wires? I have heard this was the case, and that those are hard to obtain (particularly because of the regulation barriers supported by large telecoms, as it looks kind of benign yet builds a moat around their fiefdoms), and sometimes outright impossible because of exclusivity agreements.
- adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
  they need all of those. I was saying that even in the absence of regulation, needing to physically network every customer is a huge barrier to entry. it's basically the same as the hypothetical where there were multiple sewer networks or electrical grids just so you could choose your supplier there
  - drdaeman 2y ago
    What is wrong with communal fiber for the last few miles? As long as it’s truly a “public road” (for a reasonable network size) without any small print, owned by the consumers themselves so they decide on the peering? (But are legally prevented from exclusivity traps, which might be already the case - need to read up on this). Need just one of those for every place, and relaxed zoning laws between such IXes (where ISPs come to play). That assuming that those singleton last-mile networks are ran by the people for the people, in a low corruption environment (which I believe the US is, at least on a smaller-scale levels). If democracy doesn’t fix unfairness I’m not sure what can do.
genewitch 2y ago
USDA won't give grants or "guaranteed loans" to anyone trying to start a community WISP if the area is "served" by incumbents - you have to gerrymander your service area which i find seedy. Definition of "service" is 1.5mbit downstream. so, yeah, i'd like to see this notion quashed.

The barrier to being an ISP is literally owning a wire that connects to everyone's house. That's the exact opposite of a low barrier to entry. It's a natural monopoly.

fragmede 2y ago

That's not strictly true these days, given that T-Mobile offers home Internet access via 5G and also Starlink, though neither of them are a replacement for a hard line.

genewitch 2y ago
neither tmo nor starlink work where i live. tmo would need to spend money to serve me, and i'd need to spend thousands of dollars or rent a bulldozer and learn to use it to clear trees. Fixed wireless would work if it wasn't on the 2ghz+ bands (i know because i had this, too, until at&t canceled both versions)

drdaeman 2y ago

Wait, do you mean ISPs in the US don’t need licenses and/or permits for the wires? I have heard this was the case, and that those are hard to obtain (particularly because of the regulation barriers supported by large telecoms, as it looks kind of benign yet builds a moat around their fiefdoms), and sometimes outright impossible because of exclusivity agreements.

adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
they need all of those. I was saying that even in the absence of regulation, needing to physically network every customer is a huge barrier to entry. it's basically the same as the hypothetical where there were multiple sewer networks or electrical grids just so you could choose your supplier there
- drdaeman 2y ago
  What is wrong with communal fiber for the last few miles? As long as it’s truly a “public road” (for a reasonable network size) without any small print, owned by the consumers themselves so they decide on the peering? (But are legally prevented from exclusivity traps, which might be already the case - need to read up on this). Need just one of those for every place, and relaxed zoning laws between such IXes (where ISPs come to play). That assuming that those singleton last-mile networks are ran by the people for the people, in a low corruption environment (which I believe the US is, at least on a smaller-scale levels). If democracy doesn’t fix unfairness I’m not sure what can do.

genewitch 2y ago

USDA won't give grants or "guaranteed loans" to anyone trying to start a community WISP if the area is "served" by incumbents - you have to gerrymander your service area which i find seedy. Definition of "service" is 1.5mbit downstream. so, yeah, i'd like to see this notion quashed.