5 ms·

Yes. The imaginary apple doesn't seem fully comparable to a real apple unless I'm in a very focused and compelling daydream, and even then real but not real at

Yes. The imaginary apple doesn't seem fully comparable to a real apple unless I'm in a very focused and compelling daydream, and even then real but not real at the same time, if that makes sense. But even now if I was to conjure an image of a faint, ethereal apple in front of this computer screen, I can do it easily. The major difference is VR goggles are fully vivid, and remain so when I'm not willing them to be, and tangible in some sense I'm sure is indefinable with people to aphantasia. The VR goggles are real in the same way things that aren't dreams are real.

listenallyall 2y ago
Does the imaginary apple block you from seeing the comouter screen behind it? If you can honestly say it blocks your vision, like a real tangible apple, I'd give some credence to the idea (and also suggest that you not be permitted to drive, as it would be incredibly dangerous if simple thoughts could block you from seeing an actual car or stoplight in front of you).
- interroboink 2y ago
  It's perhaps a little like holding your hand up in front of one of your eyes but not the other. It "blocks" your vision, but you can still see behind it. I don't personally have such a vivid visual imagination, but there are moments when it can feel like that — I won't know what I was physically looking at because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image that obscured my awareness of the real world, to a degree.
  - listenallyall 2y ago
    > I won't know what I was physically looking at because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image Like the guy above, you should not be allowed to drive a vehicle.
    - empiricus 2y ago
      Alternatively, if I am physically able to close my eyes during driving then I should not be allowed to drive?
      - listenallyall 2y ago
        If you are unable to prevent your eyes from closing, yes, absolutely
        OJFord 2y ago
        No blinking allowed while driving?
        Kiro 2y ago
        You seem really angry that people are able to do this.
        listenallyall 2y ago
        > I won't know what I was physically looking at > obscured my awareness of the real world Yes - because these are the same symptoms as someone who drives drunk and kills someone - "didn't see anybody walking there" (= unable to tell what you're looking at) "just a little buzzed" (= obscured awareness of reality) "I don't know what happened" (same)
        archerx 2y ago
        You seem to have left out "because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image" which is very convenient for your strawman argument. As noted, it takes a lot of concentration to maintain these visuals and it's not something you can do while multitasking. Imagine you are day dreaming and a friend waves at you but you didn't notice because you were lost in the dream. Maybe you don't get it because you are incapable of visualization but saying it's like being drunk is incredibly stupid and ignorant.

listenallyall 2y ago

Does the imaginary apple block you from seeing the comouter screen behind it? If you can honestly say it blocks your vision, like a real tangible apple, I'd give some credence to the idea (and also suggest that you not be permitted to drive, as it would be incredibly dangerous if simple thoughts could block you from seeing an actual car or stoplight in front of you).

interroboink 2y ago
It's perhaps a little like holding your hand up in front of one of your eyes but not the other. It "blocks" your vision, but you can still see behind it. I don't personally have such a vivid visual imagination, but there are moments when it can feel like that — I won't know what I was physically looking at because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image that obscured my awareness of the real world, to a degree.
- listenallyall 2y ago
  > I won't know what I was physically looking at because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image Like the guy above, you should not be allowed to drive a vehicle.
  - empiricus 2y ago
    Alternatively, if I am physically able to close my eyes during driving then I should not be allowed to drive?
    - listenallyall 2y ago
      If you are unable to prevent your eyes from closing, yes, absolutely
      - OJFord 2y ago
        No blinking allowed while driving?
      - Kiro 2y ago
        You seem really angry that people are able to do this.
        listenallyall 2y ago
        > I won't know what I was physically looking at > obscured my awareness of the real world Yes - because these are the same symptoms as someone who drives drunk and kills someone - "didn't see anybody walking there" (= unable to tell what you're looking at) "just a little buzzed" (= obscured awareness of reality) "I don't know what happened" (same)
        archerx 2y ago
        You seem to have left out "because I was so concentrated on a visual(-ish) mental image" which is very convenient for your strawman argument. As noted, it takes a lot of concentration to maintain these visuals and it's not something you can do while multitasking. Imagine you are day dreaming and a friend waves at you but you didn't notice because you were lost in the dream. Maybe you don't get it because you are incapable of visualization but saying it's like being drunk is incredibly stupid and ignorant.