3 ms·

strongly typed != static typing I love C++ to death, but calling C++ strongly typed when the only type enforcement that is actually done is either static typin

strongly typed != static typing I love C++ to death, but calling C++ strongly typed when the only type enforcement that is actually done is either static typing at compile time (which a lot of casts can circumvent) or dynamic_cast at runtime is actually laughable. Like, there are literally 2 casts almost entirely ignore the static type system in reinterpret_cast and const_cast. This isn't even talking about the C style cast that still is possible, which can be any of static_cast, const_cast and reinterpret_cast depending on the context. C++ will happily run with an invalid type assumption you introduced at compile time, while in both C# and Java you will have a type cast exception. C# and Java do runtime type checks at basically every cast.

kazinator 2y ago
Circumventing casts are not evidence of weakness. Those are escape hatches. Something normally not allowed by the type system is being explicitly overridden by the programmer. Weakness consists of all that the type system doesn't catch. Like oh, for instance: C++ local variables become pixie dust with terminates. Yet an address of these variables can escape from the scope. The type system does nothing to catch this. Or: the pointer to a Derived can be converted to a pointer to a Base implicitly. But then pointer arithmetic can be applied. Even if there is an array of Derived there, the displacements are wrong. Most of the unsafe features from C are present, like argument handling in variadic functions. Explicit memory management. Code would work with an object may be perfectly well typed as far as the data representation goes except oops something already invoked the delete op on the object. You can have code that's perfectly fine except oops when exceptions happen. If C++ were type safe, they wouldn't be all these rules on how to write safe C++. Like do use this kind of smart pointer but don't use this other obsolete one that has issues.
consteval 2y ago
C++ casts ALSO perform runtime checks, just not all of them. As you've stated. And, to be clear, that behavior ALSO exists in C# and Java. You can absolutely 100% ignore the type system in Java and C# and its supported by the standard. Just like C++. So if that's your own standard for what is weak, then you must also admit that Java and C# are ALSO weakly typed. But clearly you don't believe that, so you have some sort of logic problem here. In my opinion, people see C++ differently because C++ code in the wild is fundamentally different. It's high performance and used in domains where that matters, so escape hatches are used more often than other langs. However IMO the strictness/weakness of a language comes from the language itself. And both C++ and Java/C# provide static checks + runtime type checks with escape hatches. The difference is that C++ code with raw pointers is (fairly) common.

kazinator 2y ago

Circumventing casts are not evidence of weakness. Those are escape hatches. Something normally not allowed by the type system is being explicitly overridden by the programmer. Weakness consists of all that the type system doesn't catch. Like oh, for instance: C++ local variables become pixie dust with terminates. Yet an address of these variables can escape from the scope. The type system does nothing to catch this. Or: the pointer to a Derived can be converted to a pointer to a Base implicitly. But then pointer arithmetic can be applied. Even if there is an array of Derived there, the displacements are wrong. Most of the unsafe features from C are present, like argument handling in variadic functions. Explicit memory management. Code would work with an object may be perfectly well typed as far as the data representation goes except oops something already invoked the delete op on the object. You can have code that's perfectly fine except oops when exceptions happen. If C++ were type safe, they wouldn't be all these rules on how to write safe C++. Like do use this kind of smart pointer but don't use this other obsolete one that has issues.

consteval 2y ago

C++ casts ALSO perform runtime checks, just not all of them. As you've stated. And, to be clear, that behavior ALSO exists in C# and Java. You can absolutely 100% ignore the type system in Java and C# and its supported by the standard. Just like C++. So if that's your own standard for what is weak, then you must also admit that Java and C# are ALSO weakly typed. But clearly you don't believe that, so you have some sort of logic problem here. In my opinion, people see C++ differently because C++ code in the wild is fundamentally different. It's high performance and used in domains where that matters, so escape hatches are used more often than other langs. However IMO the strictness/weakness of a language comes from the language itself. And both C++ and Java/C# provide static checks + runtime type checks with escape hatches. The difference is that C++ code with raw pointers is (fairly) common.