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The hard part about using the browser's layout engine is that it is limiting to the designer. We'd have to snap things into say, floating position, etc. And we'

by mrbogle 14y ago

The hard part about using the browser's layout engine is that it is limiting to the designer. We'd have to snap things into say, floating position, etc. And we'd have to know exactly what the designer was thinking when they're dragging some element around. Or they would have to know about floats, and how to use them. We think (right now) that the best way around this is some kind of constraint system, like CAD apps have. We're not sure what that looks like yet, though.

drivebyacct2 14y ago
I think what you have is great and I think you should run with what people are seeing this as "awesome" for, design prototyping. I think making this into anything that generates layout or uses the browser engine is going to be either: much harder than you think, or: will lose much of the functionality that you can allow for now via "do whatever, drag/drop, absolute positioning".
- tomsaffell 14y ago
  I totally agree. I've been wanting an app like this for the last 6 months (wondering why one didnt already exist), and a lack of fluid layout doesnt put me off at all. The one thing I really want is realtime collaborative use, ala google docs (Firebase should make that easy).
  - mrbogle 14y ago
    You should email me. ben@easel.io
- mrbogle 14y ago
  Thanks. That is the intent. Design prototyping, but with tools that allow the dev to build it more quickly.
JoshTriplett 14y ago
> The hard part about using the browser's layout engine is that it is limiting to the designer. True, and the even harder part is building a system that treats that as a feature rather than a bug.
- mrbogle 14y ago
  Right. That's a human problem, though. Many designers have told us they feel very restricted in wysiwyg tools, so refuse to use them.
  - JoshTriplett 14y ago
    That makes a lot of sense: most WYSIWYG tools end up presenting a UI that cares more about appearance than semantics, so if you actually care about building good semantic HTML and complementary presentational CSS, most WYSIWYG tools utterly fail. So if a designer cares about building fluid layouts and semantic content rather than pixel-accurate recreations of Photoshop images, it makes sense that they'd feel very restricted in a WYSIWYG tool.
anigbrowl 14y ago
it is limiting to the designer As a user, I want the designers to be limited. Scaling by percentages and using constraints sounds like an improvement. On the other hand, I like your minimalistic tools.
hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
The hard part about using the browser's layout engine is that it is limiting to the designer. Web design is all about limits. The designer has to understand, and ultimately play along, the constraints the media imposes on him - otherwise he's not a web designer, he's just a guy coming up with pretty mockups. (...) Or they would have to know about floats, and how to use them. Sincerely, if a web designer doesn't understand how floats work, what are they doing working with the web in the first place? Web designers != Photoshop pilots

by mrbogle 14y ago

drivebyacct2 14y ago

I think what you have is great and I think you should run with what people are seeing this as "awesome" for, design prototyping. I think making this into anything that generates layout or uses the browser engine is going to be either: much harder than you think, or: will lose much of the functionality that you can allow for now via "do whatever, drag/drop, absolute positioning".

tomsaffell 14y ago
I totally agree. I've been wanting an app like this for the last 6 months (wondering why one didnt already exist), and a lack of fluid layout doesnt put me off at all. The one thing I really want is realtime collaborative use, ala google docs (Firebase should make that easy).
- mrbogle 14y ago
  You should email me. ben@easel.io
mrbogle 14y ago
Thanks. That is the intent. Design prototyping, but with tools that allow the dev to build it more quickly.

JoshTriplett 14y ago

> The hard part about using the browser's layout engine is that it is limiting to the designer. True, and the even harder part is building a system that treats that as a feature rather than a bug.

mrbogle 14y ago
Right. That's a human problem, though. Many designers have told us they feel very restricted in wysiwyg tools, so refuse to use them.
- JoshTriplett 14y ago
  That makes a lot of sense: most WYSIWYG tools end up presenting a UI that cares more about appearance than semantics, so if you actually care about building good semantic HTML and complementary presentational CSS, most WYSIWYG tools utterly fail. So if a designer cares about building fluid layouts and semantic content rather than pixel-accurate recreations of Photoshop images, it makes sense that they'd feel very restricted in a WYSIWYG tool.

anigbrowl 14y ago

it is limiting to the designer As a user, I want the designers to be limited. Scaling by percentages and using constraints sounds like an improvement. On the other hand, I like your minimalistic tools.

hcarvalhoalves 14y ago

The hard part about using the browser's layout engine is that it is limiting to the designer. Web design is all about limits. The designer has to understand, and ultimately play along, the constraints the media imposes on him - otherwise he's not a web designer, he's just a guy coming up with pretty mockups. (...) Or they would have to know about floats, and how to use them. Sincerely, if a web designer doesn't understand how floats work, what are they doing working with the web in the first place? Web designers != Photoshop pilots