6 ms·

One big change I've noticed between growing up in a small town and now where I'm in my mid 40s in a big metro city in India is increased "transactional" nature

• sublinear 2y ago
  I don't mean to be so brutal about it, but these small social interactions were simply never valued that much by the majority and maybe even seen as a nuisance.
  • __rito__ 2y ago
    It's not all or nothing. I live in small town India since Covid and WFH, and I spent my childhood here. The thing is, with this much tightknit society, people are often loudly judgemental and requires you to conform. But, there are always sensible, gentle people, and loud stupid people. You can modulate your expectations. But what happened is- all the "good ones" leave sooner or later. There is much hue and cry about brain drain from India to US/Europe, but little about brain drain from small towns and villages to big cities. I left for college, too. There were many more cultural programmes, much better environment for upliftment and somewhat more sensible society when I was a child compared to now. I engage in community as much as I can, but very selectively. Because most people want things to fall in a certain place. People are ill informed in technology, and don't really get WFH. Some bluntly ask- why I don't have a "real job"? People want girls to get married at a certain age, and squint if that limit is crossed. Community also come with this kind of burdens.
  • naasking 2y ago
    Until you need that person, then they're a life saver. People often can't see beyond their own nose.
• Chris2048 2y ago
  > I'm now connected only with my immediate family, that's it Are there no other ways to make friends via social activities?
  • deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  • __rito__ 2y ago
    Not GP. But most Indian corporate companies are sweatshops requiring you to work 10-12 hours a day. And most people live about 30 minutes to 2 hours away from their office. So, count in commute, too. There’s simply no time for family, let alone community. There are weekends, but sometimes you work, sometimes you go to small trips by car. There are only religious festivals in gated communities and weddings etc. where you meet your neighbors and form some sort of connections.
• TbobbyZ 2y ago
  Money is now our God.
  • Nextgrid 2y ago
    Money is just a means of exchange. But basic human rights such as housing now being monetized and rented out and/or used as an investment means the endless pursuit of money is now mandatory to survive.
    • Nasrudith 2y ago
      Now? How did you think housing work for millennia? It not being monetized before is a cold comfort when your labor and agricultural products are taxed directly instead.
      • Nextgrid 2y ago
        Taxation has always been around in one form or another. But property ownership being out of reach of the masses is a relatively new thing. Not that long ago, a blue collar family could afford to save enough to buy a family home in under a decade. Nowadays most blue-collar people (and in some countries such as the UK, even white collars) have no option but to rent perpetually. And that's just property, not even taking into account inflation of everything else. Cars (which are necessities in many parts of the world) have also exploded in price, with entry-level models now approaching what high-end executive cars were just 15 years ago.
    • brnt 2y ago
      Money is an abstraction and that is where humans interpretation starts to diverge. I think that may be this problem in a nutshell: abstractions are always leaky, and they leak in different places for different people.
• ip26 2y ago
  I would call that the difference between a small town and a city, which isn't new. You establish those ties because you see the same grocer regularly - there's only two grocers in town, after all. Meanwhile, in the city, you could buy groceries twice a week and never see the same clerk twice.
  • theossuary 2y ago
    This isn't the difference between a small town and city, it's the inevitable result of late stage capitalism. In cities it's still possible to go to small stores and create connection with your local grocer, butcher, etc. I purposefully do it, but I have to seek out the places it's still possible, they're dwindling every year. The problem is capitalism wants to consolidate and treat people as fungible to extract more value, which has the side effect of preventing the formation of social bonds.
    • parineum 2y ago
      Capitalism isn't a person, it doesn't want things. The problem with people that talk about capitalism the way you do is that they mistake human nature for the system that was built around it so when they try to change the system, the people are maladapted and transgress against it by default then it fails miserably.
      • theossuary 2y ago
        No, the issue is pedantic people like you who can't understand that "want" is a simple way of saying that a system is biased towards certain outcomes. Capitalism is not an expression of human nature, it's a single possible pareto equilibrium. To say otherwise ignores huge swaths of humans history, and many modern nations which have achieved equilibrium in different ways.
        • parineum 2y ago
          Capitalism is a system built by people that recognize that humans are reliably selfish and seeks to align their selfish interests as best as it can with the rest of the populous. No nation has ever achieved equilibrium but we are enjoying the most peaceful times in history during a time after the previous wave of capitalism-alternatives failed miserably or acquiesced. Just about every measure of human flourishing is in the rise, globally.
• diob 2y ago
  It's a mindset I think. I love being in big cities (overseas) because I actually can cultivate this sort of community / friendship with the locals. I go to the same coffee shops and get to know the folks there, bring them interesting coffee to try, etc. I will say that this only has worked for me in other countries, not the USA. I think folks here are too burnt out by the lack of safety nets and such, I really don't blame them.
• ricardo81 2y ago
  Not too different to myself in my mid forties in Scotland though in my case it's still the small town I was born in, the pleasures of working from home. There used to be local vendors as you describe (what comes to mind is a local shop, an ice cream van, milk man, a fizzy drinks vendor, a butcher/baker), but they've all been replaced by economies of scale (supermarkets and now online). So now there are no local shops, no weekly vans with their specialist goods. And those half a dozen well known local faces aren't doing their rounds. A local shop serves as a meeting place where conversations can take place. Even in the 80s in the UK when TV was at its peak, people could have conversations the next day on what they watched last night out of the 4 channels available. I guess the local social cohesion can be thought of as a necessity when you're going to deal with lots of local people and with recent trends said in the article it's considered optional.
• Nextgrid 2y ago
  Everyone is under more pressure thanks to cost of living and Western society being a property-indexed Ponzi scheme which requires endless growth just to keep up. Back when rent/home ownership was affordable and everyone had more "slack" it's easy to add humanity to transactions - you can spare the small opportunity cost even though you'd make more money short-term ignoring humanity and focusing purely on transactionality. Nowadays when everyone's busy trying to make as much money as possible to be able to make rent or survive in ever-increasing inflation, an extra dining table they didn't give away is one they can sell for money. Similarly, borrowing money is harder/less acceptable because everyone else too is under pressure and is less likely to be able to help (or at least it would cause them more hardship).
  • somenameforme 2y ago
    It's mildly interesting to consider that one of the main arguments against an economically deflationary society is that people would have a motivation to hoard money which might deter things like investment or lending, yet in an inflationary society few seem concerned about the fact that we create a system that motivates trying to hoard 'things', including land. It also motivates trying to rent things to people instead of selling it to them. 1971 is the year that we default on our obligations under Bretton Woods enabling the US to begin printing money at our own discretion. It's quite interesting to see how that year ended up being a huge inflection point for so absurdly many issues. [1] It resulted in a rapid increase in wealth, but came with a rapid increase in issues alongside it. [1] - https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/
    • verall 2y ago
      It's not inflation, it's bad tax policy.
      • ThunderSizzle 2y ago
        Please explain how 2x-3x housing costs in 4 years is due to tax policy.
• steve_adams_86 2y ago
  This maps to my experience as well. I see families struggle with things I don’t recall seeing as a kid or teenager. We all had more people around. We were rarely functioning as such independent family units. And you’re right, my dad was a carpenter himself and he did all kinds of favours for people. Especially elderly people—mostly women—who couldn’t do the work themselves or easily afford to pay someone to. He would offer lower rates, fit things in for free, and show up at their convenience. It was the right thing to do. That isn’t really possible now, though. Something I urge my kids to understand is that family is great, but it was never meant to be everything. That isn’t to diminish family, but to encourage one to identify and appreciate what’s so valuable and rewarding in friends and community. Humans are so richly social and so poor at functioning in isolation; there’s no sense in pretending otherwise. We really need each other. The more community erodes, so do we each as well.
  • a123b456c 2y ago
    I mean, it's still possible to have non-transactional interactions. Many service providers appear truly surprised and then appreciative when I simply ask them how their day is going. Edit: Or maybe the surprise comes when they notice that I'm actually listening to their answer.
    • BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
      I don’t think this happened because of personal changes. Absent interference, people would almost certainly form close community. We need to look for the source of the interference, individual actions aren’t enough.
      • seesaw 2y ago
        My experience is very similar. I believe there are two primary reasons for this: 1. People are wealthier, and wealthier people tend to be more independent. 2. Population density is higher. Places with lower density, such as villages still tend to have that people to people connection like in the old days
• habosa 2y ago
  Those of us who worked for tech companies trying to make “Uber for X” really accelerated this. Having an app for everything makes life a series of impersonal transactions.
  • mtsr 2y ago
    During the early days of the “sharing economy” trend, there was actually plenty focus on connecting people. But at some point you need money to pay people working on these things. So you look at something that doesn’t replace the core social connection, but augments the experience. Like selling additional services such as insurance. But it’s not easy to cover costs, especially in western countries where employees are expensive. These days (I haven’t been part of it for a long time) I’ve noticed there are also subscriptions to be part some community, which works but of course also makes it harder to grow. And investors who are looking for return on investment are also difficult in something that’s so sensitive to good will from users.
    • AlexandrB 2y ago
      > During the early days of the “sharing economy” trend, there was actually plenty focus on connecting people. You're describing the initial couchsurfing concept and the old couchsurfing.com. Everything after that has been about monetizing the shit out of these interactions.
• gregorymichael 2y ago
  Yes! We just moved out of Carroll Gardens, Brooklyn and my biggest lament was losing this type of community. Wrote about it here: https://baugues.com/last-days-nyc https://baugues.com/last-days-nyc
• emchammer 2y ago
  Seems to be correlated with PIN pads capable of displaying text. "Do you have a telephone number with us?" "It's going to ask you a question." (About how much tip to add to your bill)
• telesilla 2y ago
  I live in a major city outside the US and the culture here is very non-transactional with the neighbourhood vendors. Sometimes I forget to have enough cash and I they'll suggest I pay later (and always do). I'll be given excellent and free advice from my pharmacy, free fruit samples from the fruit grocer, good discounts on places I frequent. These are owner-run businesses, obviously the supermarket doesn't give me any preferential treatment. I love this city, it's very warm and generous, maybe because they have an incredibly strong social system but also because the municipality works to encourage owner-run businesses.
  • meetingthrower 2y ago
    Ok what city??
  • leobg 2y ago
    +1. What city?
• naasking 2y ago
  > Whenever we interacted with them it would be a small chit-chat, exchange small updates (how's your son doing, is he married yet?) and then finally do the actual purchase. All of that is now gone. Every single interaction I have now with vendors is 100% transactional. I don't even know their names nor they mine. Interesting note: economics would quantify this as a significant productivity increase. You can now get more tasks done per day! Lesson: economics does not fully capture human values.
• wkat4242 2y ago
  I don't really agree. I live in a big city in Spain but I know the local bakery girls where i get my morning bread (they always keep a loaf of my favourite apart), the 2 Indian guys in the mini mart next door often accept packages for me, the staff in all the clubs I visit know me really well and always give me a hug when I come, I always have a chat with the lady in the bigger supermarket I frequent, etc. In fact most of my interactions are not just transactional. Only those with taxi drivers etc. The restaurants I visit frequently all know my preferences. The old guy with his antique workshop down the road often offers me a can of beer while we sit and have a chat. I absolutely do feel part of the community. And I live in a big city center. Maybe in India things are different but there it's not like that at all. Ps As you mentioned people asking about your son getting married, one thing I noticed is that the focus on marriage in India is very strong, some of my coworkers in Bangalore who are from smaller villages are pretty much disowned if they don't get married by the age of 23. I know when I was 23 I was just backpacking around the world and enjoying life, not thinking about babies or families. In fact I never did get married and I'm almost 50. I think that pressure would take its toll too. Young people like to be free and don't want to be tied down. It certainly made some of my coworkers there very stressed with the pressure because they just wanted to go clubbing. One friend's parents didn't even know she had a boyfriend for years. There seems to be a huge disconnect there between generations.