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I don't disagree with the comment, but whenever people talk about a "love of the USA", I always want to ask what is it that you love? To stereotype a bit, I'm g

I don't disagree with the comment, but whenever people talk about a "love of the USA", I always want to ask what is it that you love? To stereotype a bit, I'm guessing that it will not be the federal government (despite a strong reverence for the flag of that government).

philip1209 2y ago
The deeper issue is that a pessimism about our country will become self-fulfilling. So, it's not useful. I think the USA is amazing in that it attracts the most ambitious people in the world, provides relative stability for them to work and live, and that it has managed to create such a stable society given the heterogeneous nature of its culture. It has a lot of problems, but I'd much rather be here than in the communist former-country my mom was born in.
- Mountain_Skies 2y ago
  Ever consider that perhaps cramming a community full of the most ambitious people in the world might have a bunch of negative consequences for that community?
  - batshit_beaver 2y ago
    Surely it has positive consequences too?
stnmtn 2y ago
The absolute natural beauty and diversity of geography that the USA has is one of the things that make me love it. The "newness" of USA compared to Europe is also something that I really like about it.
filoleg 2y ago
I guess it is about the spirit of it, just all the incongruent different groups of people coming together and making something greater than the individual sum of them happen. And just the whole grander idea of forging your own destiny, no matter how risky the odds are. Sure, it flies in the face of harsh reality quite often, but that’s not the point. And we can definitely gripe about current immigration policies. And of course, that spirit doesn’t feel like it holds true in a big chunk of the US. But to me personally, that’s why NYC feels sort of magical. It’s that whole idea solidified in flesh. As an immigrant, I can tell you that my hypothetical future in my old country was doomed from the start. The US, with all its imperfections and flaws, let me do my own thing and carve my own path from nothing (parents working minimum wage, so basically zero connections and funds). All while making me feel more at home than my old country ever did in every single way (from interactions with people to absolutely any other aspect of my life). Again, this isn’t to discount tons of issues that the US has (just like any other large country would). However, I just struggle to think of any other country where I could’ve ended up where I am right now, as an immigrant. And that, to me personally, is what the (idealized) spirit of the US is all about.
carapace 2y ago
There's no taboo, that's ridiculous. I love the US-of-A and I don't care who knows it. God bless America, and apple pie and moms. I love the people, even though we're mostly stupid and crazy. I love the land, even though it's drenched in the blood of the people of the First Nations and of each other. I love that we fight to repudiate and destroy the evil of slavery, even though we aren't done yet. And yeah, I even love the Federal Government. Sure it's a gnarly bureaucracy that makes mistakes, but most of the time it pretty much works. And there are so many really cool bits, like the USGS. And the vast majority of the people in the Federal workforce are decent folk just doing their best. So yeah, we have a lot of problems, but we're doing our best and the story isn't finished yet. I love the USA. (I also love the rest of the world too. It's not an either-or thing.)
veryfancy 2y ago
Everyone’s got a basket of things they can love or hate about this place when they’re in the mood to love or to hate. That’s something to love, I think.
CitrusFruits 2y ago
I'll preface this with saying there are other countries that do many of the following things I say better, but there are many many countries that do things worse. Additionally, I've found most people who have trouble loving the U.S.A. haven't had the privilege of traveling to any of the 130+ countries of the world that have a GDP per capita of less than $15K. Those countries can be awesome in their own right, but they also can help highlight how privileged the U.S. is in many areas. I love the USA because of its infrastructure, it's natural beauty, the principles of its governmental structure, the diversity of people (and food!), how it provides opportunity for people who want that opportunity, for its strong civil rights, and for its natural resources. We can do better to protect and grow all those things I mentioned, but it doesn't mean they don't exist in the first place.
samatman 2y ago
It's the flag of the nation. Not the flag of the federal government. There are symbols which are more directly associated with the government, such as the Great Seal of the United States. You will see patriotic expressions involving that symbol rather less, although the bald eagle, our national totem, is quite popular. Some countries have a separate state and civil flag. The United States is not among them. If you're asking why Americans love our nation, I don't know how to answer that question.
snozolli 2y ago
I always want to ask what is it that you love? - Public lands. Most states have National Parks in them. Every state has state parks. These generally give enormous freedom of enjoyment to vast areas of land and are accessible to most. - General freedom. We've all seen videos of abusive cops, but the fact is that's still rare. If you want to launch a business, you'll likely be able to find a location, understand regulations, and form the legal entity without paying off officials. We have corruption, but it's generally at high levels and invisible to the general public, so you don't feel the pervasive effects. - Economy. Sure, I miss the 90s tech boom, but the US has the most advanced tax system in the world, and a highly effective banking system that spurs the economy. It's far from perfect, but it's better than a whole lot, and most people take it for granted. I think we peaked in many ways between 1995 and 2012, but if we can clean up our act and make it through the new era of Robber Barons and foreign interference, we'll be in a really good place again. Edit: - ADA. To my knowledge, no other county has as good of regulations benefiting the handicapped and disabled. From accessible businesses and buses to readable signage to minimum doorway widths in homes.
anon291 2y ago
I love the people of the United States; our shared values; our shared culture. I view the United States as more than just an ideology as outlined in our constitution but also a distinct group of people with a distinct culture with a shared past and a shared future. This is why I bristle when people get upset by terms like American exceptionalism. Yes, America has a unique culture. America is also objectively superlative, whether it's our wealth, military capability, longevity as a democracy, etc. Uniqueness + superlative = exceptional. When people disagree, I'm left wondering what they disagree with. Either they disagree with the superlatives, in which case, I question their grasp on reality. Or they question the uniqueness of American culture, at which point my social monkey brain tells me to shun them.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  I assume nearly every culture believes that they are uniquely superlative in some way though; ironically this seems like a highly conserved quality of human psychology. If anything, a lot of the praise of America seems to be the federation of culture; I’ve heard it said the that it is not one country, but fifty different ones.
  - anon291 2y ago
    I mean that's totally fair. Most countries and cultures are exceptional in some way. That does not deny american exceptionalism at all.

philip1209 2y ago

The deeper issue is that a pessimism about our country will become self-fulfilling. So, it's not useful. I think the USA is amazing in that it attracts the most ambitious people in the world, provides relative stability for them to work and live, and that it has managed to create such a stable society given the heterogeneous nature of its culture. It has a lot of problems, but I'd much rather be here than in the communist former-country my mom was born in.

Mountain_Skies 2y ago
Ever consider that perhaps cramming a community full of the most ambitious people in the world might have a bunch of negative consequences for that community?
- batshit_beaver 2y ago
  Surely it has positive consequences too?

stnmtn 2y ago

The absolute natural beauty and diversity of geography that the USA has is one of the things that make me love it. The "newness" of USA compared to Europe is also something that I really like about it.

filoleg 2y ago

I guess it is about the spirit of it, just all the incongruent different groups of people coming together and making something greater than the individual sum of them happen. And just the whole grander idea of forging your own destiny, no matter how risky the odds are. Sure, it flies in the face of harsh reality quite often, but that’s not the point. And we can definitely gripe about current immigration policies. And of course, that spirit doesn’t feel like it holds true in a big chunk of the US. But to me personally, that’s why NYC feels sort of magical. It’s that whole idea solidified in flesh. As an immigrant, I can tell you that my hypothetical future in my old country was doomed from the start. The US, with all its imperfections and flaws, let me do my own thing and carve my own path from nothing (parents working minimum wage, so basically zero connections and funds). All while making me feel more at home than my old country ever did in every single way (from interactions with people to absolutely any other aspect of my life). Again, this isn’t to discount tons of issues that the US has (just like any other large country would). However, I just struggle to think of any other country where I could’ve ended up where I am right now, as an immigrant. And that, to me personally, is what the (idealized) spirit of the US is all about.

carapace 2y ago

There's no taboo, that's ridiculous. I love the US-of-A and I don't care who knows it. God bless America, and apple pie and moms. I love the people, even though we're mostly stupid and crazy. I love the land, even though it's drenched in the blood of the people of the First Nations and of each other. I love that we fight to repudiate and destroy the evil of slavery, even though we aren't done yet. And yeah, I even love the Federal Government. Sure it's a gnarly bureaucracy that makes mistakes, but most of the time it pretty much works. And there are so many really cool bits, like the USGS. And the vast majority of the people in the Federal workforce are decent folk just doing their best. So yeah, we have a lot of problems, but we're doing our best and the story isn't finished yet. I love the USA. (I also love the rest of the world too. It's not an either-or thing.)

veryfancy 2y ago

Everyone’s got a basket of things they can love or hate about this place when they’re in the mood to love or to hate. That’s something to love, I think.

CitrusFruits 2y ago

I'll preface this with saying there are other countries that do many of the following things I say better, but there are many many countries that do things worse. Additionally, I've found most people who have trouble loving the U.S.A. haven't had the privilege of traveling to any of the 130+ countries of the world that have a GDP per capita of less than $15K. Those countries can be awesome in their own right, but they also can help highlight how privileged the U.S. is in many areas. I love the USA because of its infrastructure, it's natural beauty, the principles of its governmental structure, the diversity of people (and food!), how it provides opportunity for people who want that opportunity, for its strong civil rights, and for its natural resources. We can do better to protect and grow all those things I mentioned, but it doesn't mean they don't exist in the first place.

samatman 2y ago

It's the flag of the nation. Not the flag of the federal government. There are symbols which are more directly associated with the government, such as the Great Seal of the United States. You will see patriotic expressions involving that symbol rather less, although the bald eagle, our national totem, is quite popular. Some countries have a separate state and civil flag. The United States is not among them. If you're asking why Americans love our nation, I don't know how to answer that question.

snozolli 2y ago

I always want to ask what is it that you love? - Public lands. Most states have National Parks in them. Every state has state parks. These generally give enormous freedom of enjoyment to vast areas of land and are accessible to most. - General freedom. We've all seen videos of abusive cops, but the fact is that's still rare. If you want to launch a business, you'll likely be able to find a location, understand regulations, and form the legal entity without paying off officials. We have corruption, but it's generally at high levels and invisible to the general public, so you don't feel the pervasive effects. - Economy. Sure, I miss the 90s tech boom, but the US has the most advanced tax system in the world, and a highly effective banking system that spurs the economy. It's far from perfect, but it's better than a whole lot, and most people take it for granted. I think we peaked in many ways between 1995 and 2012, but if we can clean up our act and make it through the new era of Robber Barons and foreign interference, we'll be in a really good place again. Edit: - ADA. To my knowledge, no other county has as good of regulations benefiting the handicapped and disabled. From accessible businesses and buses to readable signage to minimum doorway widths in homes.

anon291 2y ago

I love the people of the United States; our shared values; our shared culture. I view the United States as more than just an ideology as outlined in our constitution but also a distinct group of people with a distinct culture with a shared past and a shared future. This is why I bristle when people get upset by terms like American exceptionalism. Yes, America has a unique culture. America is also objectively superlative, whether it's our wealth, military capability, longevity as a democracy, etc. Uniqueness + superlative = exceptional. When people disagree, I'm left wondering what they disagree with. Either they disagree with the superlatives, in which case, I question their grasp on reality. Or they question the uniqueness of American culture, at which point my social monkey brain tells me to shun them.

silverquiet 2y ago
I assume nearly every culture believes that they are uniquely superlative in some way though; ironically this seems like a highly conserved quality of human psychology. If anything, a lot of the praise of America seems to be the federation of culture; I’ve heard it said the that it is not one country, but fifty different ones.
- anon291 2y ago
  I mean that's totally fair. Most countries and cultures are exceptional in some way. That does not deny american exceptionalism at all.