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They're also missing one key element of why China really wants to electrify large things like cars and busses while the US and Europe don't seem to have as much

They're also missing one key element of why China really wants to electrify large things like cars and busses while the US and Europe don't seem to have as much drive: domestic (or very friendly) oil production capacity. China has almost no oil capacity on their own. They can get oil from Russia through massively long pipelines, but a large amount of their oil imports are through ocean trade routes through narrow straights and contested waterways. The US just doesn't have the same level of concern. Also, they kind of lightly touch on it, but the IP boondoggle surrounding high capacity NiMH batteries in the 00's, the US Auto Battery Consortium constantly trying to kill electric cars, the IP issues for LFP batteries (that seem like China just ignored), there's a lot of legal barries that slowed things down domestically. As for battery technology, the US has still been decently competitive. LFP batteries were invented by Dr. Goodenough and Dr. Manthiram at the University of Texas after all. Material Science research is still a big thing in the US.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
> China has almost no oil capacity on their own. Pedantic: China produces 5 million barrels of oil a day, 4th in the world. That's far from "almost no oil capacity". The problem is that they consume 12.5 million barrels a day. This means that electrification doesn't need to get them to 0 oil demand, they can still use their own oil for harder to replace uses like plastic production.
- vel0city 2y ago
  You're right, somehow I forgot China is up there on domestic oil production, unsure if its 4th in the world or not these days, but it is up there at least within the top 10. But as you mention, they're still nowhere near close to their domestic demand.
- Morte42 2y ago
  China's oil consumption is pretty insane when you consider how invested they are in solar. I guess oil does have the benefit of being fuel as well as storage and can sit in a Tank for a long time without losing any energy. But consider that China is the biggest buyer by far from several oil producing nations. In fact OPEC+ has tied oil prices to the Chinese economy for a few years now. Chinese demand for energy is ludicrous.
hnav 2y ago
I think the major reason they want to electrify things is because it's a paradigm shift from things that they're not competitive at to a (relatively) green field. It took the Korean automotive industry many decades to go from making penalty boxes with rehashed Mitsubishi/Mazda/Opel IP to making cars that compete on more than value for money.

bryanlarsen 2y ago

> China has almost no oil capacity on their own. Pedantic: China produces 5 million barrels of oil a day, 4th in the world. That's far from "almost no oil capacity". The problem is that they consume 12.5 million barrels a day. This means that electrification doesn't need to get them to 0 oil demand, they can still use their own oil for harder to replace uses like plastic production.

vel0city 2y ago
You're right, somehow I forgot China is up there on domestic oil production, unsure if its 4th in the world or not these days, but it is up there at least within the top 10. But as you mention, they're still nowhere near close to their domestic demand.
Morte42 2y ago
China's oil consumption is pretty insane when you consider how invested they are in solar. I guess oil does have the benefit of being fuel as well as storage and can sit in a Tank for a long time without losing any energy. But consider that China is the biggest buyer by far from several oil producing nations. In fact OPEC+ has tied oil prices to the Chinese economy for a few years now. Chinese demand for energy is ludicrous.

hnav 2y ago

I think the major reason they want to electrify things is because it's a paradigm shift from things that they're not competitive at to a (relatively) green field. It took the Korean automotive industry many decades to go from making penalty boxes with rehashed Mitsubishi/Mazda/Opel IP to making cars that compete on more than value for money.